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Old 06-09-2012, 12:24   #21
TheSorb
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Please explain to me how you can even logically equate the massacre of tens of thousands of people for hateful reasons (which ultimately were stopped by a world war) to American law enforcement? You can't. It just makes you sound like an ignorant piece of ****.

Keep it up, freedom fighter.
That's some unbelievable (& frightening) arrogance and ignorance you're demonstrating...I NEVER made any such comparison. And I have the utmost respect for American law enforcement personnel who acknowledge my rights AND uphold the Constitution of the United States - THE SUPREME LAW OF THIS LAND!!!

My comments were directed at someone who implied that the end (catching the alleged criminal) somehow justified the means (illegally detaining & handcuffing numerous persons for whom law enforcement had absolutely no probable cause to do so). Now if you are unable to make that mental connection, that's YOUR problem. Don't blame me and resort to immature name calling just because, evidently, you are unable to read and understand my comments.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:27   #22
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That sounds DANGEROUSLY close to...the end justifies the means...and...Hitler made the trains run on time...HORRIBLY flawed logic and COMPLETELY illegal, Constitutionally speaking (see below), no matter WHAT the courts say to the contrary!!!


Fourth Amendment To The US Constitution:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That'd be a comparison right there, chief.

You can paint it any way that you wish, we all know what you were implying. I wasn't the only one who saw it.

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Old 06-09-2012, 12:29   #23
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Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
That's some unbelievable (& frightening) arrogance and ignorance you're demonstrating...I NEVER made any such comparison. And I have the utmost respect for American law enforcement personnel who acknowledge my rights AND uphold the Constitution of the United States - THE SUPREME LAW OF THIS LAND!!!

My comments were directed at someone who implied that the end (catching the alleged criminal) somehow justified the means (illegally detaining & handcuffing numerous persons for whom law enforcement had absolutely no probable cause to do so). Now if you are unable to make that mental connection, that's YOUR problem. Don't blame me and resort to immature name calling just because, evidently, you are unable to read and understand my comments.
Read up a little more. You don't need PC to detain. Only reasonable suspicion. I'm sure those officers could articulate the RS pretty easily.


How come youre crying about it, but the 19 or so folks who were detained aren't?


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Old 06-09-2012, 13:18   #24
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Hitler made the trains run on time...


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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Now, that's DANGEROUSLY close to...the end justifies the ignorance...


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Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
What's your point Patchman? Have you never heard that phrase? It was a very common expression used by those who tried to justify Hitler's tactics. You might want to do a little research before you start spouting inanities and demonstrate just how ignorant YOU are!!!


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It wasn't Hitler.

Guess it's already beyond DANGER close...the end justifying the ignorance...


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REALLY...it WASN'T Hitler...wow...all this time I thought it was Hitler...my bad!
U not bad. U just typical ignorant.
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Old 06-09-2012, 13:49   #25
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You know, I've been trying to stay out of this, but I've had enough. Do you really believe half the bull**** that comes out of your mouth, or are you just doing it for a reaction? Because if you do actually believe it, you have to be the stupidest idiot I've seen in a while, and considering I work in a federal prison, that's saying something.
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Read up a little more. You don't need PC to detain. Only reasonable suspicion. I'm sure those officers could articulate the RS pretty easily.


How come youre crying about it, but the 19 or so folks who were detained aren't?
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U not bad. U just typical ignorant.
I am STUNNED...never thought I'd face such hateful opposition on GT while defending the Constitution of the United States...
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Old 06-09-2012, 14:02   #26
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Your freedom got taken away in the hopes of finding someone ELSE!? Most LEO's that say that this is okay probably would have a royal fit if they got cuffed, no matter how many times the LEO said,"Check my wallet!! I'm an officer!!" as he was cuffed anyway. This was wrong. Too many times the cuffs and taser come out in the name of safety. "I'm cuffing you for my own safety, while i write the jay walking ticket." I understand that it was a bank robber. I understand that weapons were involved. But denying freedom just because you are in the area, not good, not legal- in my opinion.
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Old 06-09-2012, 14:14   #27
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Your freedom got taken away in the hopes of finding someone ELSE!? Most LEO's that say that this is okay probably would have a royal fit if they got cuffed, no matter how many times the LEO said,"Check my wallet!! I'm an officer!!" as he was cuffed anyway. This was wrong. Too many times the cuffs and taser come out in the name of safety. "I'm cuffing you for my own safety, while i write the jay walking ticket." I understand that it was a bank robber. I understand that weapons were involved. But denying freedom just because you are in the area, not good, not legal- in my opinion.
THIS!!!
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Old 06-09-2012, 14:49   #28
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All of the discussion on this topic is occuring in another thread, replete with case law and much more logical discussion. It's linked at least twice in this one.
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Old 06-09-2012, 15:14   #29
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I am STUNNED...never thought I'd face such hateful opposition on GT while defending the Constitution of the United States...
Maybe because we actually have training in the LAW, and what it ACTUALLY means, as opposed to what you WANT it to mean.
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Old 06-09-2012, 15:46   #30
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I am STUNNED...never thought I'd face such hateful opposition on GT while defending the Constitution of the United States...
Not sure if serious?

Defending something on the Internet won't get ya too far, pal.

Maybe there's an occupy movement you can hop into??

Cop Talk


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Old 06-09-2012, 15:49   #31
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Originally Posted by Kaybe View Post
Your freedom got taken away in the hopes of finding someone ELSE!? Most LEO's that say that this is okay probably would have a royal fit if they got cuffed, no matter how many times the LEO said,"Check my wallet!! I'm an officer!!" as he was cuffed anyway. This was wrong. Too many times the cuffs and taser come out in the name of safety. "I'm cuffing you for my own safety, while i write the jay walking ticket." I understand that it was a bank robber. I understand that weapons were involved. But denying freedom just because you are in the area, not good, not legal- in my opinion.
Opinions are like buttholes....


I'm glad we have case law and other jurisprudence to back up what we do. Even though the majority of you refuse to read any of it and not budge off your "this is my constitutional freesom" pedestal long enough to truly see that you're blabbing about.


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Just being a federally "prohibited person" who owns guns and signatures about them on the internet should be enough to keep him paranoid."
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:01   #32
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TheSorb, your posts illustrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the law, both legislated and case law, that governs actions by law enforcement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
That sounds DANGEROUSLY close to...the end justifies the means...and...Hitler made the trains run on time...HORRIBLY flawed logic and COMPLETELY illegal, Constitutionally speaking (see below), no matter WHAT the courts say to the contrary!!!


Fourth Amendment To The US Constitution:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
What's your point Patchman? Have you never heard that phrase? It was a very common expression used by those who tried to justify Hitler's tactics. You might want to do a little research before you start spouting inanities and demonstrate just how ignorant YOU are!!!
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Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
Soooo sick of the nazi BEHAVIOR & ATTITUDES...

EXACTLY!!!

REALLY...it WASN'T Hitler...wow...all this time I thought it was Hitler illegally detaining & handcuffing everyone at that Colorado intersection...my bad!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
That's some unbelievable (& frightening) arrogance and ignorance you're demonstrating...I NEVER made any such comparison. And I have the utmost respect for American law enforcement personnel who acknowledge my rights AND uphold the Constitution of the United States - THE SUPREME LAW OF THIS LAND!!!

My comments were directed at someone who implied that the end (catching the alleged criminal) somehow justified the means (illegally detaining & handcuffing numerous persons for whom law enforcement had absolutely no probable cause to do so). Now if you are unable to make that mental connection, that's YOUR problem. Don't blame me and resort to immature name calling just because, evidently, you are unable to read and understand my comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
I am STUNNED...never thought I'd face such hateful opposition on GT while defending the Constitution of the United States...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaybe View Post
Your freedom got taken away in the hopes of finding someone ELSE!? Most LEO's that say that this is okay probably would have a royal fit if they got cuffed, no matter how many times the LEO said,"Check my wallet!! I'm an officer!!" as he was cuffed anyway. This was wrong. Too many times the cuffs and taser come out in the name of safety. "I'm cuffing you for my own safety, while i write the jay walking ticket." I understand that it was a bank robber. I understand that weapons were involved. But denying freedom just because you are in the area, not good, not legal- in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSorb View Post
THIS!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
All of the discussion on this topic is occuring in another thread, replete with case law and much more logical discussion. It's linked at least twice in this one.
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Originally Posted by RussP View Post
Folks, there is already a thread on this event here: Aurora PD gets the job done....

Lets keep the discussion confined to that thread.

Thanks
Please join the discussions already going in Political Issues, Cop Talk and especially the one in Civil Liberties Issues, and, based on your posts, Civil Liberties Issues is the most appropriate forum.

Thank you...
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Old 06-09-2012, 17:34   #33
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your posts illustrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the law, both legislated and case law, that governs actions by law enforcement...
I believe I have a decent working knowledge & understanding of the law, both legislated and case law, that governs actions by law enforcement-though I'm certainly no expert/scholar. I just believe that much of it is wrong and anti-Constitutional. So please don't mistake a different perspective as ignorance. Thank you.

I'll stop posting on this thread, as requested.
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Old 06-09-2012, 20:13   #34
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Ohio Copper, it appears that you and so many other LEO's believe that no matter what, the officer is supreme, right and always in charge. You see the citizens are nothing more than stupid sheep to taze or cuff when ever it is convenient. Those of us on the "constitutional pedestal" see that document as our protection against wreckless powers and abuses. Without the checks, there is no balance. You will understand when your badge is gone and you no longer have the "professional courtesy" going in your favor, but not until. I understand the LE job. I have made my traffic stops, put the cuffs on bad guys. and so on. But you see officers doing anything if it justifies the means; Constitution be damned. When you are on the other side and some bully with a badge decides that today is your day, you will see. The rule of law and the restraints on those in power need to constantly guarded. We don't need the sheepdogs turning wolf.
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Old 06-09-2012, 20:17   #35
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Disturbing is the best way to describe the situation. Blocking off the road, maybe. Handcuffing, far and beyond what I would expect from LE in the US.
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Old 06-09-2012, 20:23   #36
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Originally Posted by Kaybe View Post
Ohio Copper, it appears that you and so many other LEO's believe that no matter what, the officer is supreme, right and always in charge. You see the citizens are nothing more than stupid sheep to taze or cuff when ever it is convenient. Those of us on the "constitutional pedestal" see that document as our protection against wreckless powers and abuses. Without the checks, there is no balance. You will understand when your badge is gone and you no longer have the "professional courtesy" going in your favor, but not until. I understand the LE job. I have made my traffic stops, put the cuffs on bad guys. and so on. But you see officers doing anything if it justifies the means; Constitution be damned. When you are on the other side and some bully with a badge decides that today is your day, you will see. The rule of law and the restraints on those in power need to constantly guarded. We don't need the sheepdogs turning wolf.
Cool.


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Old 06-09-2012, 20:26   #37
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I see we have a new crop in...
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Old 06-09-2012, 21:03   #38
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I see we have a new crop in...
Seems so...
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Old 06-09-2012, 21:41   #39
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I see we have a new crop in...
Different usernames, same diahrrea of the mouth.


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Old 06-09-2012, 22:17   #40
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People in large part don't look at case law most of the time, (personal opinion), because the perspective is that it is a lot to look at. Indeed it is.

In order to understand how things work in this country, and in state governments you have to go beyond looking at written law to case law. Case law generally is the application of the written law as interpreted by the judiciary, which I think most law enforcement officers understand because it is their livelihood. So, I am guessing it is up to those of us involved in law enforcement to explain that in the kindlier environment of a forum, and for those of us ambitious enough to do so, to go ahead and post a link or two to some applicable case law, or to where they can find applicable case law so that they can thoroughly understand what it is they are upset against; have concerns about.

Other than that, if people seek a change in the laws concerned with they need to address this to their congress, individually or as a group in order to facilitate such changes; and to exercise the power of the vote to usher in to office those sympathetic to their concerns.
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