[ChiefWPD]

Just got an email from a long time friend (retired copper) who has moved to NC. He is looking to be qualified under HR-218 and was told by an instructor there that he will have to qualify with the specific handguns (not just the type of handguns) he will be carrying. I know that's not in the federal LEOSA statute. Is there some section of NC law that speaks to this?

Thanks.

[PattonT]

Chief, I believe this to be correct but he could actually get a carry permit for the specific state so that he is even more covered. I know it's fun having a dozen different handguns to carry but you should master probably 2 or 3 for simplicity during intense situations. If he has been carting a firearm for 20+ yrs I figured he would be over the high horse feeling of carrying and actually have an old trusty he's had for ever.

[PattonT]

Does this help? http://ncdoj.gov/About-DOJ/Law-Enfor...arms-Cert.aspx


12 NCAC 09E.0106

[Steve in PA]

The problem is, that no one took the time to define the same "type" of firearm.

Ask one person what "type" means and they will say either semi-auto or revolver. So if you qualify with one semi-auto, you are good to go with any other semi-auto.

I emailed MPOETC last week because I had an retired officer want to qualify with a different firearm than he qualified with earlier this year.

This is a copy of the response I got from MPOETC;

"The retired law enforcement officer must follow the same requirements for qualifying as an active duty officer. When asking to carry another weapon of the same type, manufacture and configuration, i.e. carrying a Glock .40 and a Glock 9mm, the retired officer would not have to qualify again. However, if s/he is carrying two weapons that are of a different type, manufacture, and configuration, the retired officer must qualify with the second weapon before being able to carry because that weapon operates differently than the one used for the initial qualification.

If it is necessary to have the retired officer qualify again, you will need to submit a new Firearms Instructor Log using the same qualification card that was issued when he qualified with the original weapon. I hope that this information is helpful."

So, according to MPOETC, if the retired officer qualifies with a Glock, but now wants to qualify with a Sig, he has to qualify again with the Sig.

[merlynusn]

I think it's one of the issues with LEOSA that hasn't been addressed yet. But yeah, the state requires us to qualify with each gun we use. So since that's what we have to do, so do retirees.

[fastbolt]

Yeah, it seems that agencies are all over the map with this one.

The LEOSA documents I've been given to carry with my retirement ID card list a specific pistol & revolver that I used for qualification. I wouldn't be surprised if different out-of-state agencies might vary in their interpretation of the law's language, so to err on the side of conservative safety I carry those specific guns when I travel.

I might run across an agency that was liberal in their interpretation of "type", or I might not. Why risk complicating things? Since my LEOSA document lists specific serial numbers, I figure it's easier to have them match up with whatever I'm carrying under LEOSA, right?

It would probably be simpler if the LEOSA document I carried simply listed "Pistol" & "Revolver", without a specific serial numbered handgun of each type being listed, but I don't get to make the rules.

At the moment, my former agency still requires serial numbers for each specific off-duty & secondary weapon carried by an active employee. They also list serial numbers of the weapons used by retirees when they qualify. That being the case, their practices are consistent. It may, or may not, change at some point in the future (as it has in the past).

Now, how LEOSA documentation is interpreted by agencies who ask to see it is anybody's guess. I'd like to think they'd err on the side of common sense.

Of course, it probably also depends a great deal on the situational context in which the subject may arise.

If someone does something stupid (or illegal) while visiting another state, and it involves a weapon for which LEOSA privilege is claimed, I'd imagine it might well bear some closer scrutiny.

[ChiefWPD]

Thanks for the information. I must say, MA isn't this complex when it comes to LEOSA qualifications (I'm a state certified instructor for LEOSA purposes).

I'll pass this info on to my friend.

[Hack]

Just for general knowledge: Kansas is semi auto, or revolver. If you want to do both you have to do two separate qualifications for both types of guns. A CCL isn't as specific.

[isp2605]

IL is also revolver or auto. If you want to carry both then qualify with both. No specific firearm listed.
IL was one of the first states to get our LEOSA program up and running. We had quite a few states calling us to see how we were operation. I was part of the initial committee right after LEOSA was signed. I talked to a number of different states. I recall talking to one state that was wanting to classify "type" as a specific action type. I don't recall now if that was NC but it sure sounds like it. The state I was talking with wanted "type" to be separate depending on the action of the gun. I don't recall much discussion about revolvers other than a bit about S&W and Colt having cylinders that rotate in opposite directions so therefore those would be separate "types" depending on rotation and also for DA/SA, DAO, and SA. For autos they wanted separate "types" to be SA, DA/SA, DAO, and the H&K PM7 style as a separate type. I don't recall if there was discussion concerning guns like Glock which is partially cocked when loaded as opposed to something like a Springfield XM which is fully cocked and has a grip safety. I remember we talked about them later on and decided they must be some types there who like to make the simple complex and the complex impossible.

[25pd]

As far as the Pa. MPOETC answer I think that was the views of whomever the Officer spoke with at MPOETC. I do not know of any specific regulation covering re-certification w/ another semi auto or revolvfer other than the ones you initially qualify with at the range. my understanding of the way the leosa rules are published is that if you carry a semi auto or revolver you must qualify with "A" semi auto or Revolver just my 2 cents....