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Old 06-22-2012, 16:20   #1
Gray_Rider
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Thots on 20 Gage/Loads as HDW?

Having thots about a 20 Gage as SD/HD. Or should I stay with 12 Gage? Gun will probably be a pump but love doubles.
Just wanted you guys' know how and thots on the subject.

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Old 06-22-2012, 16:29   #2
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Tactical Shotguns
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Old 06-22-2012, 17:30   #3
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A friend has killed many large deer and several 250#+ hogs with his using #4 buck.....Once, two large hogs were taken w/ one shot. (They were facing each other one about 3-4 feet behind. Head shot to both.) As an example of a killed deer, (taken with 20 gage #4 at about 30+ yards the pattern penetrated the rib cage, transversing the thoratic cavity and the pellets were found in the rib cage on the opposite side from impact area...instant kill. No problem with any other hogs being stopped either. One shot stops all. Thots?



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Old 06-22-2012, 17:39   #4
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If I could wave a magic wand and turn my social shotguns into 20 ga and have the amount of loads available that I have with the 12s, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Mas Ayoob made a good case for the 20 in his book and he made a good point. To paraphrase,

a centered pattern with either 12 or 20 and only your coroner will know the difference.
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Old 06-22-2012, 17:56   #5
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A 20 is redundantly powerful for home defense at home distances... It's easily found in #3 buck, but across a room less will have still devastating results ( I've seen it on things tougher than humans) ... The little youth pump 20's would make a fine HD weapon...

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Old 06-22-2012, 18:02   #6
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Old 06-22-2012, 19:03   #7
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Sounds like the 12 gage is still the best choice for HD. Thanks for the input. I was considering a 20 because it would give my wife (who isn't a gun person and isn't my size or strength either) something a little more serious than a pistol but w/ less recoil than a 12 gage. Perhaps a 12 in a reduced recoil 00 round? She blanched when she watched me fire full sized 00 from my Winchester Defender, and refused to fire it. It was too big of a gun for her too. Too unwieldy, but she likes the coach double barrels. I thought a 20 Gage double or pump might make the difference.

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From the amount of viewings of this thread, I'm not alone concerning this subject.
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Old 06-22-2012, 19:13   #8
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Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Sounds like the 12 gage is still the best choice for HD. Thanks for the input. I was considering a 20 because it would give my wife (who isn't a gun person and isn't my size or strength either) something a little more serious than a pistol but w/ less recoil than a 12 gage. Perhaps a 12 in a reduced recoil 00 round? She blanched when she watched me fire full sized 00 from my Winchester Defender, and refused to fire it. It was too big of a gun for her too. Too unwieldy, but she likes the coach double barrels. I thought a 20 Gage double or pump might make the difference.

Gray_Rider

I have a bunch of social shotguns around and the wife bought about 1/2 of them and they are 12ga. the wife and I also have 20ga's for birds. My wife, even though of smaller stature likes her 12's with the "managed recoil/low recoil/tactical loads" especially her Winchester 1200 she compares the recoil to being similar to her much lighter Remington 870 youth 20, but the lighter pump handles faster for her.
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Old 06-22-2012, 19:14   #9
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Whats a thot?
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Old 06-22-2012, 19:44   #10
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Thot.....Thought.

Thanks countrygun. Your points are well presented and well taken. A 12 it will be with reduced recoil 00. Just want something she can handle if things get sticky and I'm either not available or something more serious is called for than a pistol that she can learn easily, present quickly, and will hopefully never be needed for a "social" issue.




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Old 06-22-2012, 19:55   #11
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Only issue with a 20 for a home defence gun, is the lesser amount of loads available for 20 gauge.
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Old 06-22-2012, 20:06   #12
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Thot.....Thought.

Thanks countrygun. Your points are well presented and well taken. A 12 it will be with reduced recoil 00. Just want something she can handle if things get sticky and I'm either not available or something more serious is called for than a pistol that she can learn easily, present quickly, and will hopefully never be needed for a "social" issue.




Gray_Rider

A good choice and as AKstick points out it really is the choice of loads thing for us.

I might say thst the "Good" Chinese double 12 Coach gun is also a favorite of the Mrs. It is a lot heavier than our EAA Bounty hunter" double so it soaks up recoil and in an HD situation "packing weight" isn't an issue.


We have 6 "socials" and three "bird" shotguns so I take the topic to heart.
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Old 06-22-2012, 20:11   #13
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What is a "social" shotgun?
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Old 06-22-2012, 20:16   #14
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A social shotgun is like the difference between a studio and touring musician. I have no idea what that means but there is a difference.
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Old 06-22-2012, 21:32   #15
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I prosecuted a murder case where the defendant used a 20 ga shotgun. It only took one shot to be lethal.
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Old 06-22-2012, 21:51   #16
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What is a "social" shotgun?

It is a term we used for years before "tactical" came along. The common term was "riot gun" in the day, but since homeowners rarely faced riots, it didn't seem to fit. "Social" seemed to describe a tool used to influence the outcome of an unpleasant interpersonal social interaction.
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Old 06-23-2012, 04:08   #17
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IMO "Social" is a gun that has multiple purposes, where as the "tactical" and "hunting" guns are more single purpose.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:02   #18
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IMO "Social" is a gun that has multiple purposes, where as the "tactical" and "hunting" guns are more single purpose.
A social shotgun is for encounters with other people, as opposed to a hunting shotgun that is used on animals.

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Old 06-23-2012, 06:16   #19
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Thanks guys, that's what I thought it meant. I'm so old they are still riot guns to me.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:48   #20
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The formulae I've been shown by the ammo companies I have dealt with for decades as one or another kind of gun editor for gun magazines show that the average 20-gauge shotgun load (five-eighths of an ounce of lead) will deliver to the shooter's body via his or her shoulder only 55% of the recoil as a one-ounce charge of lead from a 20-gauge. Yet the lead delivered on target at the same velocity from a 20-gauge is 62.5% of the payload brought to impact by the one-ounce charge from a 12-gauge.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob120.html

Mr. Ayoob makes a pretty good argument for the 20ga which you can read above. Some type of shot, just less of it. If you can't kill something with a 20ga I really doubt you could kill it with a 12ga either. I'm currently trying to hunt down a Mossberg SA-20 'tactical' for my wife's home defense weapon.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:45   #21
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I prosecuted a murder case where the defendant used a 20 ga shotgun. It only took one shot to be lethal.
My first electrical Boss was an ex-police officer... He saw three murders involving 20 gauges in particular, all were lethal and non were buckshot or slugs.. They were all well under 50' shot distance... Two of the occurences were indoors where the assailant didn't make it out of the house, and third didnt make it out the yard where he was shot...

Non of this surprised me as I've hunted all my life and have seen volumes of examples of flesh versus different firearm cartridges... At 30-35 yard the damage becomes moderated on flesh --- 30 feet is different outcome...
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:28   #22
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Dead is dead and a 20ga. with #3 buck in will definately get the job done. In a home defense situation. I don't care how big you are 20 .25 caliber balls coming at you and hitting you at 1250 FPS and it's over.
As mentioned
Mas Ayoob made a good case for the 20 in his book and he made a good point. To paraphrase,

a centered pattern with either 12 or 20 and only your coroner will know the difference.

12Ga's are nice but for HD I'll take a 20Ga.

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Old 06-25-2012, 09:23   #23
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Thanks much for the top rate info on the differences relating to 12 and 20 gage. I haven't considered a "shotty" for a while lately, but reciently I have wanted something a little more serious for my wife (and for that matter myself) living here in hurricane land. Even though we haven't had a major hit here in Jacksonville since the 60's, there's no reason to be overly trusting about it either. Karen (my wife) is a little over burdened with my defense rifles, and though she is a good shot with one, as well as w/ her Glock, she needs something lighter but with serious channel changing traits in the bargan.

I think a double barrel 12Ga. with lighter recoil 00 buck may be the solution. They are light and manuverable in say a hallway situation (short overall length) and with the greater variety of ammo, what's more to want? I know the limitations of two shots, but they are two sure quick shots with no worries about jacking a slide. I know I won't get her to the range to shoot much, so two sure shots of 00 could be a happy if not perfect match.

Thanks again to all.

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Old 06-25-2012, 09:33   #24
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I started with 20 ga. really enjoyed it. So I just stuck with it it.

Like some one else mentioned, there is less loads available, but I have what I need.

My suggestion...Go For It!

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Old 06-25-2012, 16:10   #25
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I started with 20 ga. really enjoyed it. So I just stuck with it it.

Like some one else mentioned, there is less loads available, but I have what I need.

My suggestion...Go For It!

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Absolutely... There are more 12 ga. stuff available, but that don't mean there is a shortage of useful ammo for the 20... All I've ever really needed is light birdshot, squirrel/ pheasant load, and buckshot.. Not too hard to find..
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