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Old 07-19-2012, 17:37   #881
PAGunner
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Tried the G4 19 again today. About one round per mag into my noggin. Springs, ejector, extractor, whatever, little to no difference.
I've lost all faith in Glock, I've written them off at this point. Thinking about going to M&Ps exclusively, especially now that the new improved triggers are starting to hit LGS shelves.

If HK ever introduces a polymer striker fired line, then I'll be all in with it, the rumors have been circulating for a couple of years now, seeing that they have made polymer pistols and striker fired pistols (pioneers with both) it would make sense they finally put that combo together, they would get plenty of contract and civilian sales from it, especially since Glock wuality has went into the crapper!
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Old 07-19-2012, 18:45   #882
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PaGunner, I share your disgust with Glock. That said, I won't be jumping on the S&W bandwagon. My G19 doesn't have the "issue" and even my G34 and G17L, while ejecting weak, they don't do the sprinkler ejection with the non dip extractor and the 336 ejector. If they start it again at some point I'll put the 30274 ejectors back in.

From what I've read, Apex looks like they'll do what Glock should have. I'd rather pay the $60 when their extractor comes out than take a loss on 2 guns and shell out more money for M&Ps that have accuracy issues at distance. At least my guns are accurate and with all the grief with ejection, I have yet to have any FTFs or FTEs.

And who knows, maybe someone with enough guns (department or Feds) will force Glock to get their act together. Like the original G19 fiasco at NYPD.
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Old 07-20-2012, 21:41   #883
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I did a small experiment today.

I first tested my Gen 2 Glock with its OEM extractor. It has an after market solid steel guide rod, a flat wire 17# spring and HRED extractor spring assy. This gun has approx 3000 rds thru it and has been completely reliable. It has always "dripped out" empties to the side and not in my face.

I loaded a mag with fifteen founds alternating WWB 115 with Gold Dot 124gr +P. Upon firing the WWB just drippled out of the gun generally to the right. The GD 124 +p ejected about three feet high and three feet right at about 4 o'clock.

I changed the extractor to a Glock 40SW and repeated the test. The WWB ejected about two feet to the right and at about 4 o'clock. A bit better than before. The 124 +P ejected about three feet high and about four feet to the right at about 3 o'clock.

Conclusions:
1) The Glock 40SW extractor may actually be better for the 9MM Glock.
2) The Glock is definitely ammo sensitive. It is designed to work best with +P rated ammo.
3) Given the ammo sensitivity, 9MM Glocks are probably over sprung and would most likely work better with most ammo with a 15# or 16# recoil spring.

I don't know what after market recoil springs are available for the Gen 4 9MM Glocks, but if I owned one I would try a lighter recoil spring to cure erratic ejection. It is clear to me that many Glock ejection problems are related to slide velocity that is to low at the point of ejection.

As a side note: my Gen 2 40SW pistols never had weird ejection IME and they used the same recoil springs as the 9MM. What was the difference? Much higher slide velocity; a 135PF vs 175PF cartridge.

Last edited by DBR; 07-20-2012 at 21:55..
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Old 07-20-2012, 21:59   #884
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Sorry - double post

Last edited by DBR; 07-20-2012 at 22:03..
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Old 07-24-2012, 22:03   #885
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I've been watching this thread carefully for months. I've been waiting for this issue to be resolved before buying glock, but accidentally bought a Sig recently. (My low ball bid actually won at GB)

Ended up with a sig 226 for 626$. I don't think I'll ever look at another glock. The first real benefit of glocks for me was theire supposed utter reliability. With that gone, who needs glocks.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:10   #886
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Still waiting for the Apex extractor.

Seriously...if the Apex part does not cure the problem, I am selling the G19 and buying an HK USP compact 9mm, installing the LEM trigger and calling it good.

Hoping I do not have to change platforms, though.

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Old 07-26-2012, 18:50   #887
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Still waiting for the Apex extractor.

Seriously...if the Apex part does not cure the problem, I am selling the G19 and buying an HK USP compact 9mm, installing the LEM trigger and calling it good.

Hoping I do not have to change platforms, though.

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No need to wait. Order a new Glock non-dipped extractor from Midway or one of the other vendors. Problem solved. It appears that Glock has figured it out and redesigned the extractor. It just took some time but, I figured they would come through.
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Old 07-26-2012, 19:25   #888
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No need to wait. Order a new Glock non-dipped extractor from Midway or one of the other vendors. Problem solved. It appears that Glock has figured it out and redesigned the extractor. It just took some time but, I figured they would come through.
The 2 non dipped extractors acted almost no differently than the dipped. I went back to the 336 ejector and basically, the combo of the 30274 and non dipped ejector had weak ejection no 6:00 ejection. The non dipped extractor and 336 ejector acted the same. Ejection is weak but no 6:00 ejection.

Hopefully the Apex extractor will get stronger extraction and it may be the only extractor in a polymer gun that allows the gun to extract without a mag to support the case.
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Old 07-26-2012, 20:10   #889
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Larry, are you using the latest non-dipped from Glock ? Im talking about the ones from the past 3 or 4 weeks.
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Old 07-26-2012, 20:20   #890
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Yep, got them from Glockparts.com, hand picked to make sure they were non dipped. They didn't do much although I did put the 336 ejectir back in my guns. They Basically did the same as the 39274 and the dip extractor. I tried the new extractor with both the 30274 and 336 and there was no difference. So there was a tiny improvement but nothing like my older G19. Ejection is still weak in my G34 and G17L.


Quote:
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Larry, are you using the latest non-dipped from Glock ? Im talking about the ones from the past 3 or 4 weeks.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:47   #891
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Im going to jump back in here with something kind of related and a question.

Ive been shooting the same 17 here all along while this thread has been going on, and as I mentioned back in the begining of it, its been running fine, except for the occasional head bop with my reloads. Factory has, and still seems to run fine.

About two weeks ago, it was like a switch was thrown, and ejection became very erratic and I started to get hit in the head and upper body every three or four rounds. I thought maybe it was time for a recoil spring swap, since its been about 5-6000 rounds since the last one was changed out, but that didnt seem to do any good. I then detail stripped the slide and gave everything a good cleaning last week. The extractor, as well as most of the rest was pretty loaded up with crap.

Took it out today, and the first round nailed me in the head, and out of the next 299 rounds, only a couple more got me or even came close, and it seems to be back on track.

Now my question is in regards to the "dipped" extractors and why they are dipped. Is that dip there to allow crap and crud to more easily clear itself, allowing the extractor to continue to move freely? Seems once I got that crap out of there, it straightened right up and started to run right.

Im starting to wonder if this isnt all just lack of hygiene.
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Old 07-28-2012, 19:55   #892
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Im going to jump back in here with something kind of related and a question.

Ive been shooting the same 17 here all along while this thread has been going on, and as I mentioned back in the begining of it, its been running fine, except for the occasional head bop with my reloads. Factory has, and still seems to run fine.

About two weeks ago, it was like a switch was thrown, and ejection became very erratic and I started to get hit in the head and upper body every three or four rounds. I thought maybe it was time for a recoil spring swap, since its been about 5-6000 rounds since the last one was changed out, but that didnt seem to do any good. I then detail stripped the slide and gave everything a good cleaning last week. The extractor, as well as most of the rest was pretty loaded up with crap.

Took it out today, and the first round nailed me in the head, and out of the next 299 rounds, only a couple more got me or even came close, and it seems to be back on track.

Now my question is in regards to the "dipped" extractors and why they are dipped. Is that dip there to allow crap and crud to more easily clear itself, allowing the extractor to continue to move freely? Seems once I got that crap out of there, it straightened right up and started to run right.

Im starting to wonder if this isnt all just lack of hygiene.

Not in my case I've been meticulously cleaning between outings to include detail strip of the slide. In contrast, ToddG over at pistol training.com has been running a gen 4 g17 in the tens of thousands of rounds and has only cleaned it a couple times.


It seems that if you have one buggered up from the start it stays buggered up despite trips to Glock or part swaps. Mine has been through four extractors now and it got better but still does it. I'm starting to doubt it's the extractors or ejector being the problem in gen 3s with a problem from day one.

Others though seem good from the start but develop a problem after the first 500 or so rounds. That might just be a parts issue for the ones that started off okay then deterorated in consistency. Mine and some other people have ones that never ran right from go. IMHO. I think if you have one of those chance to fix gets slimmer.

I know the frame from my "bad" one is okay. I can take the slide from my older g17 and put it on the new frame and no BTF. If I take the slide from the bad one and put on the old frame it does the same BTF ejection. I think there is something hincky in the slide or the channel cut for the extractor. Looking at what others have tried even putting all the guts from a known good one into a problem pistol doesn't do much.

Dunno.
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Old 07-28-2012, 20:25   #893
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This gun has over 40000 through it right now, and this is only the third time Ive stripped the slide and pulled the extractor. The gun gets field stripped and cleaned every time its shot, but I dont normally mess with the slide. I usually change out the recoil spring twice a year though.

All my Glocks are Gen 3 9mm's, and I still only seem to have the BTF issue with my well used reloads in any of them. What went on a couple of weeks ago with this 17, while out of the norm, seems so far to have been straightened with the cleaning, but Ill have to see.
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Old 07-28-2012, 20:31   #894
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This gun has over 40000 through it right now, and this is only the third time Ive stripped the slide and pulled the extractor. The gun gets field stripped and cleaned every time its shot, but I dont normally mess with the slide. I usually change out the recoil spring twice a year though.

All my Glocks are Gen 3 9mm's, and I still only seem to have the BTF issue with my well used reloads in any of them. What went on a couple of weeks ago with this 17, while out of the norm, seems so far to have been straightened with the cleaning, but Ill have to see.
Yep that's what I mean. Sounds like yours has been good from day one so yep it could have just been grime. Mine has been erratic from the first shot fired. I don't think there is any fixing it. My other g17s have been good from day one. I'm stumped.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:31   #895
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Has anyone tried a new (or stronger) extractor spring? I'm wondering if this wouldnt explain the random nature of the problem, and also the fact that "it ran fine for 500 rounds".
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:15   #896
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Has anyone tried a new (or stronger) extractor spring? I'm wondering if this wouldnt explain the random nature of the problem, and also the fact that "it ran fine for 500 rounds".
I have tried a fresh from the bag factory extractor depressor plunger spring and spring loaded bearing. Nothing good or bad changed.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:40   #897
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I'm waiting on the Apex part to give it a go in my G19. Kind of frustrating getting pelted in the forehead all the time!
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:24   #898
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Here's a great article, while not Glock related, great reading and may have an application for us.

http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/e...perfection.htm
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Old 08-01-2012, 06:44   #899
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I have tried a fresh from the bag factory extractor depressor plunger spring and spring loaded bearing. Nothing good or bad changed.
Man! I just dont know what to say with yours. I've seen where you have tried all kinds of things. I mentioned the plunger spring because I heard Apex is putting a stronger one in their extractor kit. You may have a problem with the slide itself, thats about the only explanation that would make sense given the things you have done.
I had some problems with my Gen 4 G26 and it would pelt me a couple of times in a box of 100, but I put in the updated ejector (trigger housing) and that did the trick (at least for 250 rounds it has). I didnt see anything really wrong with my extractor, and saw no reason to change even though it is the dip (concave) model. I did order a new Lone Wolf extractor just in case, and so I'd have one to play with if I wanted to try something else, but for me the ejector was THE fix.
If I were you HK I would look into the new Apex kit, when and if it becomes available. I dont know what exactly they are doing but the video's look promising.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:10   #900
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The up-dated ejector fixed my 19(Dec. 2009) for a while but it went back to crazy ejections but not as many to the head.
Tried polishing extractors(3) but no fix so far except not as many BTF.

Up-dated ejector did nothing for my 26(2005) and neither did swapping or polishing extractors.
Still crazy ejections,BTF and last rd. in mag ejects left over my weak hand.

Last edited by ken grant; 08-01-2012 at 08:10..
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