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Old 08-11-2012, 21:45   #51
Detectorist
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Originally Posted by youngdocglock View Post
Why do you disagree.

Give one GOOD valid reason why gay or lesbian people should not be allowed to serve. Give one good reason why they are less human and less capable than you or I.

If you can honestly do that. With a Hardened response that gives Valid reason......then i may respect that answer.

But religion has nothing to do with the military. So dont try that one. It wont fly. I love my country. I was willing to die for it. As they are. to me......thats the only thing that matters.
Because of your personal involvement with Gays, nothing I present here will be to your satisfaction. My opinions on this matter, contrary to what you accuse me of, have nothing to do with religion, and all to do with my experiences in the Army.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:46   #52
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Aren't you a cop? Did you lie on your application?
Yes I am. No I didn't. I disclosed everything including my misremembering weed use to Uncle Sam.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:47   #53
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Decades ago, I knew a few soldiers in my unit were gay or lesbian. It did not matter to me as a straight man. I deployed with all sorts and sexual orientation was always a non-issue. Back then, I was very conservative and it just did not matter.

At any given moment, soldiers find themselves outside UCMJ compliance. As with the civilian world, there are high and low priorities when it comes to prosecution.

The UCMJ also forbad normal sexual activities of heterosexuals.

I went through a divorce that took almost 4 years. When I was asked in my security clearance if I committed adultery, I said I had. It was after our separation and the start of the dragged out divorce. It did not matter in my clearance nor in my military service.

I have known all sorts if exemplary soldiers who did not line up with the outdated aspects of the UCMJ.

If one did not use some discretion in deciding what to prosecute, it would undermine moral. Even in uniform, the world is not simply black and white.

Last edited by ScottieG59; 08-11-2012 at 21:48..
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:51   #54
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Because of your personal involvement with Gays, nothing I present here will be to your satisfaction. My opinions on this matter, contrary to what you accuse me of, have nothing to do with religion, and all to do with my experiences in the Army.
Your right. They will not. Because Lcpl. Brian Wilmont took a few rounds, and gave his life so that i can sit here today and converse with you. Brian or "wilmer" as we lovingly called him. Was gay. His sexual orientation did not stop him from fighting, did not stop him from loving with everything he had. It did not stop him from dying for me and four other men. You may dislike gay soldiers. I respect them. And thats all there is to it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:52   #55
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One can't pick and choose which policies to abide by and which to not. The whole premise of the military is following lawful orders and policies set forth by those in charge. She should not have been promoted, or even still be in the Army. However, she did get promoted and is still in. That is the direction the military is going, compromise.
Some policies should not have been in place. Some questions should have never been asked. And there are some military people who are universally praised today for not following the orders. I know it's an overused example, and not on the same level, but the orders to kill civilians given to Nazi Germany officers were lawful from Nazi point of view.

Look at it this way. Say a very light skinned, caucasian looking person who is still technically black lies about his race to get into military back when it discriminated against minorities. Say this person has a distinguished career. Would you still say the same words I highlighted in the quote above ?

For the record, I don't have any gay relatives, and never had any close gay friends. I simply object to any form of discrimination that's based purely on bias, whatever the nature of this bias may be. It's un-American.

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Old 08-11-2012, 21:55   #56
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Some policies should not have been in place. Some questions should have never been asked. And there are some military people who are universally praised today for not following the orders. I know it's an overused example, and not on the same level, but the orders to kill civilians given to Nazi Germany officers were lawful from Nazi point of view.

Look at it this way. Say a very light skinned, caucasian looking person who is still technically black lies about his race to get into military back when it discriminated against minorities. Say this person has a distinguished career. Would you still say the same words I highlighted in the quote above ?
Exactly. The dont ask dont tell, disbarring people from joining. Is the same thing as not allowing black people into Diners set aside for whites.

The people who enforced these rules then look like complete racist morons today.

As will those who discriminate today, in 20 or so years.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:11   #57
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Exactly. The dont ask dont tell, disbarring people from joining. Is the same thing as not allowing black people into Diners set aside for whites.

The people who enforced these rules then look like complete racist morons today.

As will those who discriminate today, in 20 or so years.
No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and start making invalid analogies.
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Last edited by Detectorist; 08-11-2012 at 22:32..
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:13   #58
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It's not that fact she is homosexual that is at issue. It is the fact that she was homosexual when in fact declaring that she was not for the last 25+ years and violating established policy.
So she told a white lie to work around an immoral, discriminatory policy.

Boo freakin' hoo.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:14   #59
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Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.
Lol, no.

If you are a man attracted to men, you are gay, whether or not you ever act on your attraction.

Your orientation is your orientation, regardless of your behavior.

Last edited by Lampshade; 08-11-2012 at 22:18..
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:14   #60
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and start making valid analogies.
Ill end with this. Some day. Your life will be saved by someone who is gay. It may already have been. You will be in a situation where your screwed, badly. And the person that is your savior will be gay.....Before i joined the Military. I thought just like you did. I despised my sister because she was a lesbian. Then a gay man gave his life for mine. And i realized what you have not gotten yet. They are people. Just like you and me. And they deserve all the same happiness that we do.

Good day.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:16   #61
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Ill end with this. Some day. Your life will be saved by someone who is gay. It may already have been. You will be in a situation where your screwed, badly. And the person that is your savior will be gay.....Before i joined the Military. I thought just like you did. I despised my sister because she was a lesbian. Then a gay man gave his life for mine. And i realized what you have not gotten yet. They are people. Just like you and me. And they deserve all the same happiness that we do.

Good day.
Your shallow anecdote holds no sway over the moral superiority so vocally espoused by his type.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:19   #62
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The Furball Forum

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Old 08-11-2012, 22:20   #63
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Your shallow anecdote holds no sway over the moral superiority so vocally espoused by his type.
Theres the question. Morals. Which one holds more. Morals that says being gay is wrong. Or Morals that say judging others is okay.

Mine say live and let be. If they love their country, and are willing to die for it. Let them die for it. Just like everyone else.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:28   #64
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No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and... making [invalid] analogies.
Fixed it for ya!


I know you and I don't agree much, but please let the trolls lie as they'll never participate in an honest dialog.
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 08-11-2012 at 22:29..
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:30   #65
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No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and start making valid analogies.
Wow, just wow. So does it mean a virgin has no sexual orientation ?

Your sexual orientation, whether you act on it or not, is hardcoded in you. Biologically. You are born that way. So it's not any different from race.

Let me ask you - if someone openly admitted he/she were gay (i.e. had preference for people of same sex) but could prove that they never engaged in sex, would they be allowed into service when gays couldn't serve ? If the answer is "no", then how is it based on behavior / is different from race discrimination ?

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Old 08-11-2012, 22:32   #66
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Originally Posted by Restless28 View Post
What is Radical Christian Moralism?
Biblical Sharia.






I have another confession to make to the GlockTalk inquisition- I kept my poncho liner and I never signed a DD 362.



(No way was I giving up my woobie!)

I hope they don't change the status of my discharge!
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:32   #67
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Some of you guys would hit it if you could....
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:33   #68
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Fixed it for ya!


I know you and I don't agree much, but please let the trolls lie as they'll never participate in an honest dialog.
Agree. I'm done.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:34   #69
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Fixed it for ya!


I know you and I don't agree much, but please let the trolls lie as they'll never participate in an honest dialog.
Troll? I have an opinion that is different than yours and that makes me a troll? Bit childish dont you think.

I may not have Huge words, i may not use anecdotes or coin cool analogies. I may just be a Stupid Jarhead. I dont really care.

What i do have is i sleep peacefully at night. Knowing that my hands are clean of hatred, ignorance and judgement.

For me........thats good enough.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:35   #70
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Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
Biblical Sharia.






I have another confession to make to the GlockTalk inquisition- I kept my poncho liner and I never signed a DD 362.



(No way was I giving up my woobie!)

I hope they don't change the status of my discharge!
You WHAT? Isn't there any decency left in the world?



Did you make a jacket out of the poncho liner?
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:37   #71
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Where is the documented evidence of all of that gay sex you claim?
its common knowledge..just like its common knowledge about all the straight sex..guess wha alot of the soldiers even masterbate...

my wife comes from a family of marines who were deployed to iraq , one BIL went twice and one BIL went once but he now works outside of iraq for a company that fixes airplans.

so ive heard the stories of soldiers getting caught doing it in hummers' in stykers...if you wanted coke it was all around..
my BIL even admitted that he used the services of a female soldier, one of many who are prostitutes...theres even males that do it too..

soldiers are still people and they have vices.....do you have this picture in your head where after a long day of patrol they sit down and have fries and a coke ,say their prayers and hit the sack...some lift weights ,some play basketball,some meet up with thier girlfriends....normal stuff
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:38   #72
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I despised my sister because she was a lesbian. Then a gay man gave his life for mine.
According to the GlockTalk Klan, he's in hell now... and your sister will join him.



I have a gay friend who ran route clearance for a few years and has two purple hearts and two bronze stars.

I guess he's not fit to serve either?

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Old 08-11-2012, 22:42   #73
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Agree. I'm done.
Hi Detectorist, I noticed you chose not to address my post addressing sexual orientation.

I just thought that was interesting and was wondering what your response to my post might be.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:43   #74
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According to the GlockTalk Klan, he's in hell now... and your sister will join him.



I have a gay friend who ran route clearance for a few years and has two purple hearts and two bronze stars.

I guess he's not fit to serve either?

under these peoples opinions. Nope.

They would probably like to see every gay/lesbian person in the country deported to a small island. Because there should be separatism running wild throughout our country.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:48   #75
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I find it ironic that the same people who look at gay people as scum are the same people who complain about the erosion of American freedoms.

I can't comprehend how you can not support gay rights in this country. This is the United States. You are supposed to be able to do whatever you want here as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

free·dom/ˈfrēdəm/
Noun:

1. The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.
2. Absence of subjection to foreign domination or despotic government.
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