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Old 08-11-2012, 21:30   #41
youngdocglock
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
So, any opinion expressed on this forum which goes against yours is 'cowardice'?

How is it that I insulted her?

You sound awfully shrill.
When it comes to hatred towards other people for living their own lives. Your right I am Shrill. My sister is a lesbian. Shes also a goddman fine Marine. She took a bullet in COMBAT in Iraq........she wasnt a combat soldier, she drove a TSB truck. But she did a whole lot more for the USA than most of the gay bashers out there.

You insulted her and every other gay/lesbian in the armed forces by saying that insulting this General was not Un-American. Which it is. America is about freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And to State that bashing people who are doing exactly that...goes against everything our country stands for.

I am a Marine. I've served my time, so have THOUSANDS of gay/lesbian and Bisexual soldiers. I served elbow to elbow with them. Infact my Gunny was gay, Dont ask dont tell, But we all knew and there's no one else i would rather drop into a hornets nest with other than him.

Whether they enjoy the company of men or women....they are still damn fine soldiers. As someone who has been in the **** with them. I know this to be a truth, and no book, no hatred and no opinion will ever change that truth.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:31   #42
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:34   #43
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Originally Posted by Restless28 View Post
What would McArthur, Patton, Bradley, Nimitz, Sgt. York and Audie Murphy think of this crap?
Are they still in command positions? HH
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:35   #44
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Originally Posted by youngdocglock View Post
When it comes to hatred towards other people for living their own lives. Your right I am Shrill. My sister is a lesbian. Shes also a goddman fine Marine. She took a bullet in COMBAT in Iraq........she wasnt a combat soldier, she drove a TSB truck. But she did a whole lot more for the USA than most of the gay bashers out there.

You insulted her and every other gay/lesbian in the armed forces by saying that insulting this General was not Un-American. Which it is. America is about freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And to State that bashing people who are doing exactly that...goes against everything our country stands for.

I am a Marine. I've served my time, so have THOUSANDS of gay/lesbian and Bisexual soldiers. I served elbow to elbow with them. Infact my Gunny was gay, Dont ask dont tell, But we all knew and there's no one else i would rather drop into a hornets nest with other than him.

Whether they enjoy the company of men or women....they are still damn fine soldiers. As someone who has been in the **** with them. I know this to be a truth, and no book, no hatred and no opinion will ever change that truth.
Ah, now I see. It's a personal issue.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:36   #45
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Originally Posted by youngdocglock View Post
When it comes to hatred towards other people for living their own lives. Your right I am Shrill. My sister is a lesbian. Shes also a goddman fine Marine. She took a bullet in COMBAT in Iraq........she wasnt a combat soldier, she drove a TSB truck. But she did a whole lot more for the USA than most of the gay bashers out there.

You insulted her and every other gay/lesbian in the armed forces by saying that insulting this General was not Un-American. Which it is. America is about freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And to State that bashing people who are doing exactly that...goes against everything our country stands for.

I am a Marine. I've served my time, so have THOUSANDS of gay/lesbian and Bisexual soldiers. I served elbow to elbow with them. Infact my Gunny was gay, Dont ask dont tell, But we all knew and there's no one else i would rather drop into a hornets nest with other than him.

Whether they enjoy the company of men or women....they are still damn fine soldiers. As someone who has been in the **** with them. I know this to be a truth, and no book, no hatred and no opinion will ever change that truth.
First of all son, you need some better reading comprehension. I haven't insulted anyone. I haven't expressed 'hate' for anyone. I just happen to strongly disagree with the current policy and with a promotion which appears to be politically motivated. That's all.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:37   #46
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It's not that fact she is homosexual that is at issue. It is the fact that she was homosexual when in fact declaring that she was not for the last 25+ years and violating established policy.
Okay.....what if the application said

Are you black or hispanic?

Answering yes to either would be violation and you would not be allowed your god given right to serve your flag.

As it did before WW2..............would that be okay?

The Dont ask dont tell policy was pure bigotry. You should know that. It was BS from the start. I never agreed with it because i served with homosexual men and women and they were more committed to soldiering than anyone else.

Just like the Black units in WW2. everyone called them coons and monkeys and trash.....they fought harder than whites. We all know that. They proved they were worth admittance.

Gays and lesbians have proved that as well

She lied to protect her country. GOOD. She became a GENERAL.........you dont become a general if your not a damn good soldier. As far as i see it, if she had told the truth our country would have lost a great leader.

This is why the policy has been removed. Someones sexual orientation has nothing to do with being a soldier. It has to do with whiney wind bags who want to run someone elses life the way THEY see fit. ONLY God has the right to judge us. Noone else. And if being gay is a sin. he will deal with those people when their time comes, but i can guarantee, he will deal with those who sin by judgement just as harshly.

I say let those who serve our country be. They give us more than we give them.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:38   #47
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Ah, now I see. It's a personal issue.
Maybe you could learn something from it?

Last edited by ray9898; 08-11-2012 at 21:54..
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:40   #48
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Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
First of all son, you need some better reading comprehension. I haven't insulted anyone. I haven't expressed 'hate' for anyone. I just happen to strongly disagree with the current policy and with a promotion which appears to be politically motivated. That's all.
Why do you disagree.

Give one GOOD valid reason why gay or lesbian people should not be allowed to serve. Give one good reason why they are less human and less capable than you or I.

If you can honestly do that. With a Hardened response that gives Valid reason......then i may respect that answer.

But religion has nothing to do with the military. So dont try that one. It wont fly. I love my country. I was willing to die for it. As they are. to me......thats the only thing that matters.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:43   #49
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Good for her. Congratulations Ma'am!
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:43   #50
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Originally Posted by youngdocglock View Post
Okay.....what if the application said

Are you black or hispanic?

Answering yes to either would be violation and you would not be allowed your god given right to serve your flag.

As it did before WW2..............would that be okay?

The Dont ask dont tell policy was pure bigotry. You should know that. It was BS from the start. I never agreed with it because i served with homosexual men and women and they were more committed to soldiering than anyone else.

Just like the Black units in WW2. everyone called them coons and monkeys and trash.....they fought harder than whites. We all know that. They proved they were worth admittance.

Gays and lesbians have proved that as well

She lied to protect her country. GOOD. She became a GENERAL.........you dont become a general if your not a damn good soldier. As far as i see it, if she had told the truth our country would have lost a great leader.

This is why the policy has been removed. Someones sexual orientation has nothing to do with being a soldier. It has to do with whiney wind bags who want to run someone elses life the way THEY see fit. ONLY God has the right to judge us. Noone else. And if being gay is a sin. he will deal with those people when their time comes, but i can guarantee, he will deal with those who sin by judgement just as harshly.

I say let those who serve our country be. They give us more than we give them.
What evidence do you have that blacks fought harder than whites, other than some movies that may have led you to believe this?
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:45   #51
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Originally Posted by youngdocglock View Post
Why do you disagree.

Give one GOOD valid reason why gay or lesbian people should not be allowed to serve. Give one good reason why they are less human and less capable than you or I.

If you can honestly do that. With a Hardened response that gives Valid reason......then i may respect that answer.

But religion has nothing to do with the military. So dont try that one. It wont fly. I love my country. I was willing to die for it. As they are. to me......thats the only thing that matters.
Because of your personal involvement with Gays, nothing I present here will be to your satisfaction. My opinions on this matter, contrary to what you accuse me of, have nothing to do with religion, and all to do with my experiences in the Army.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:46   #52
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Aren't you a cop? Did you lie on your application?
Yes I am. No I didn't. I disclosed everything including my misremembering weed use to Uncle Sam.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:47   #53
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Decades ago, I knew a few soldiers in my unit were gay or lesbian. It did not matter to me as a straight man. I deployed with all sorts and sexual orientation was always a non-issue. Back then, I was very conservative and it just did not matter.

At any given moment, soldiers find themselves outside UCMJ compliance. As with the civilian world, there are high and low priorities when it comes to prosecution.

The UCMJ also forbad normal sexual activities of heterosexuals.

I went through a divorce that took almost 4 years. When I was asked in my security clearance if I committed adultery, I said I had. It was after our separation and the start of the dragged out divorce. It did not matter in my clearance nor in my military service.

I have known all sorts if exemplary soldiers who did not line up with the outdated aspects of the UCMJ.

If one did not use some discretion in deciding what to prosecute, it would undermine moral. Even in uniform, the world is not simply black and white.

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Old 08-11-2012, 21:51   #54
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Because of your personal involvement with Gays, nothing I present here will be to your satisfaction. My opinions on this matter, contrary to what you accuse me of, have nothing to do with religion, and all to do with my experiences in the Army.
Your right. They will not. Because Lcpl. Brian Wilmont took a few rounds, and gave his life so that i can sit here today and converse with you. Brian or "wilmer" as we lovingly called him. Was gay. His sexual orientation did not stop him from fighting, did not stop him from loving with everything he had. It did not stop him from dying for me and four other men. You may dislike gay soldiers. I respect them. And thats all there is to it.
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Old 08-11-2012, 21:52   #55
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One can't pick and choose which policies to abide by and which to not. The whole premise of the military is following lawful orders and policies set forth by those in charge. She should not have been promoted, or even still be in the Army. However, she did get promoted and is still in. That is the direction the military is going, compromise.
Some policies should not have been in place. Some questions should have never been asked. And there are some military people who are universally praised today for not following the orders. I know it's an overused example, and not on the same level, but the orders to kill civilians given to Nazi Germany officers were lawful from Nazi point of view.

Look at it this way. Say a very light skinned, caucasian looking person who is still technically black lies about his race to get into military back when it discriminated against minorities. Say this person has a distinguished career. Would you still say the same words I highlighted in the quote above ?

For the record, I don't have any gay relatives, and never had any close gay friends. I simply object to any form of discrimination that's based purely on bias, whatever the nature of this bias may be. It's un-American.

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Old 08-11-2012, 21:55   #56
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Some policies should not have been in place. Some questions should have never been asked. And there are some military people who are universally praised today for not following the orders. I know it's an overused example, and not on the same level, but the orders to kill civilians given to Nazi Germany officers were lawful from Nazi point of view.

Look at it this way. Say a very light skinned, caucasian looking person who is still technically black lies about his race to get into military back when it discriminated against minorities. Say this person has a distinguished career. Would you still say the same words I highlighted in the quote above ?
Exactly. The dont ask dont tell, disbarring people from joining. Is the same thing as not allowing black people into Diners set aside for whites.

The people who enforced these rules then look like complete racist morons today.

As will those who discriminate today, in 20 or so years.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:11   #57
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Exactly. The dont ask dont tell, disbarring people from joining. Is the same thing as not allowing black people into Diners set aside for whites.

The people who enforced these rules then look like complete racist morons today.

As will those who discriminate today, in 20 or so years.
No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and start making invalid analogies.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:13   #58
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It's not that fact she is homosexual that is at issue. It is the fact that she was homosexual when in fact declaring that she was not for the last 25+ years and violating established policy.
So she told a white lie to work around an immoral, discriminatory policy.

Boo freakin' hoo.
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:14   #59
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Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.
Lol, no.

If you are a man attracted to men, you are gay, whether or not you ever act on your attraction.

Your orientation is your orientation, regardless of your behavior.

Last edited by Lampshade; 08-11-2012 at 22:18..
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Old 08-11-2012, 22:14   #60
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No it's not. Guys like you need to stop saying that.

Race is determined mostly by skin color. Sexual orientation is determined by behavior.

So please stop getting all high and mighty and start making valid analogies.
Ill end with this. Some day. Your life will be saved by someone who is gay. It may already have been. You will be in a situation where your screwed, badly. And the person that is your savior will be gay.....Before i joined the Military. I thought just like you did. I despised my sister because she was a lesbian. Then a gay man gave his life for mine. And i realized what you have not gotten yet. They are people. Just like you and me. And they deserve all the same happiness that we do.

Good day.
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