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Old 08-12-2012, 17:03   #141
Jon_R
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I thought we had highly trained professional Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines.... I would expect them to act like professionals.

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No kidding.

The idea behind "no gays in the military" is for the same reason they separate male and females. They don't want hanky panky getting in the way of duties. They also don't want other members of the military uncomfortable with each other.
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:17   #142
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I wonder how many of you would be for stripping a Medal of Honor recipient if you found out he did pot before they signed up and lied about it. Anyone?
So far we have no takers. A lot of talk about how a "lie is a lie", but now everybody is silent.
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:21   #143
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So far we have no takers. A lot of talk about how a "lie is a lie", but now everybody is silent.
Was there an MOH recipient who lied about smoking pot before his enlistment?
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:51   #144
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Was there an MOH recipient who lied about smoking pot before his enlistment?
If there was, would you strip him of it? It is a simple question.
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Old 08-12-2012, 17:56   #145
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Was there an MOH recipient who lied about smoking pot before his enlistment?
Well, there is at least one who was using it during combat...

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...s/cu/CU57.html
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:04   #146
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Was there an MOH recipient who lied about smoking pot before his enlistment?
I am trying to remember if that was even a question when I enlisted (1993). You took a drug test but I don't remember the question.

I will loosely answer the question. I think someone who fradulently enlisted or entered as an officer should face a penalty if the Govt can prove it and show damages. The financial penalty would be based on damages the government encumbered. Cheating the vision test to go through flight school then cant fly would be a pretty big financial damage to the government. Going through Selection and being trained as a Delta Operator for a couple hundred K then saying it is against your beliefs to shoot at someone is damages.

Applied to this particular case I am not sure the government suffered any damages seemed they got a lot of service from her and unless she tells them she lied their chance of proving she was a homosexual when she said she wasn't upon entering the service is going to be difficult and probably a waste of government resources. If they could maybe they can kick her out and take away her retirement save the country some money...

Just hope they apply that equally and go over every ones paperwork. A bunch in WWII lied about age. Hard to debate that one so we should have took away bennies after we were done with them saved a few bucks. Bunch of liars....
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:05   #147
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Was there an MOH recipient who lied about smoking pot before his enlistment?
We'll never know because no one sweats the small stuff.

There will always be former pot heads, sodomy, and gays in the military of yesterdays, today, and tomorrow.
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:19   #148
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What would McArthur, Patton, Bradley, Nimitz, Sgt. York and Audie Murphy think of this crap?
McArthur and Patton would be too busy killing American veterans who only wanted what was due to them.

Bradley and Nimitz probably too busy trying to establish their power bases.

Sergeant York and Audie Murphy were too busy killing jerries to give a damn.
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:21   #149
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As far as lying goes...anybody here; veterans and active duty alike, can tell me that they have yet to lie about anything while on duty?

Let those without sins cast the first stone.
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:32   #150
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90% of the Soldiers I ever met did that and more
Wow, 90%?

You must be incredibly attractive.



"...and more?"
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:38   #151
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McArthur and Patton would be too busy killing American veterans who only wanted what was due to them.

Bradley and Nimitz probably too busy trying to establish their power bases.

Sergeant York and Audie Murphy were too busy killing jerries to give a damn.
Audie Murphy fraudulently enlisted so he should have been booted anyways.... Right??

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In June 1942, shortly after what he and his sister Corrine believed was his 17th birthday, Corrine adjusted his birth date so he appeared to be 18 and legally able to enlist.
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Old 08-12-2012, 18:47   #152
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...or homosexual behavior is a choice which anyone could possibly make.
Of course homosexual behavior is a choice. So is heterosexual behavior.

It is kind of sad though that we have several full grown adults in this thread who don't understand the difference between sexual activity and sexual orientation.

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Old 08-12-2012, 19:31   #153
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there was gay sex on the sands of normandy
Well if there really were gays doing each other at Normandy while everyone else was busy trying to take France back I can understand how the resulting resentment caused the anti homosexuality article to be put in the UCMJ in 1952. They really should have exercised better self control.
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Old 08-12-2012, 19:37   #154
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If there was, would you strip him of it? It is a simple question.
If it came down to him getting stripped I say, he created his own problems by lying.

People are canned/stripped of awards for honor violations, but if they can get away with whatever they do, fine, I guess.

That's the whole issue with this thread - Lying.

Should a sitting president be impeached for lying under oath?
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Old 08-12-2012, 19:44   #155
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Are you implying that you can't control your sexual behavior?
Well, enlighten me; was the question asked (before DADT) if you were a homosexual - which is biology - or if you engaged in said behavior ?

If someone said that they were a celibate homosexual, would they still be allowed to enlist ?

Do you imply that there was no straight soldiers fooling around ? Or are you saying they are all unworthy of being promoted or honorably discharged ?

This whole argument is worthy of Sen. Larry Craig.
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Old 08-12-2012, 19:53   #156
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Like I said prior, you're still mixing apples and moon rocks in your comparison.

Civil rights cover the broad spectrum of rights as a created being. These supersede governmental rights and are codified so as to prevent discrimination against people based on such things as "RACE," age, religion, national origin, ethnicity and gender.

The attempt to label homosexuality as a civil right is simply something that a group of homosexuals have cooked up themselves. The concept of "being born homosexual" was exposed and admitted to by some of the militants long, long ago.
The statement worthy of Sarah They exposed what exactly ? The concept ? As in, you seem to imply that it's a choice ?

People are being born homosexual. Heck, penguins are being born homosexual - ask Google if you don't believe me. Just because Judeo-Christian beliefs shun homosexuality doesn't mean it's a "choice". It's a biologically hard wired deviation. Just like Albinos.

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Old 08-12-2012, 19:54   #157
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Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Well, enlighten me; was the question asked (before DADT) if you were a homosexual - which is biology - or if you engaged in said behavior ?

If someone said that they were a celibate homosexual, would they still be allowed to enlist ?

Do you imply that there was no straight soldiers fooling around ? Or are you saying they are all unworthy of being promoted or honorably discharged ?

This whole argument is worthy of Sen. Larry Craig.
Yes the question was on enlistment papers in 1977. And probably for years afterward.
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Old 08-12-2012, 19:56   #158
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Yes the question was on enlistment papers in 1977. And probably for years afterward.
Again, what question exactly ? About being a homosexual, or about engaging in sex with people of same gender ? 1st is biology, 2nd is biology+choice (although I believe that it's unnatural for a healthy adult to make a choice to stay celibate).
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Old 08-12-2012, 19:59   #159
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Do you imply that there was no straight soldiers fooling around ?
I can only assume that straight soldiers don't fool around with each other.

To me, putting gay soldiers in the same housing as straight soldiers is like housing men and women together, in the same rooms.
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Old 08-12-2012, 20:09   #160
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Again, what question exactly ? About being a homosexual, or about engaging in sex with people of same gender ? 1st is biology, 2nd is biology+choice (although I believe that it's unnatural for a healthy adult to make a choice to stay celibate).
Both, as in Are you a homosexual or have you engaged in homsexual acts? as I recall or words to that effect. It is also an article that was specifically covered in RTC basic training in the UCMJ class.
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