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Old 08-24-2012, 17:48   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
As officers do any of you see a time where there would ever be a need for some of these rigs w/ 5+ rifle mags?

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Considering several on here have responded to active-shooter incidents, including a very recent major one, I'd say, "yes".
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Old 08-24-2012, 18:06   #42
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Considering several on here have responded to active-shooter incidents, including a very recent major one, I'd say, "yes".
Incidents such as? Just trying to learn. 8 30 round mags seems to be quite a bit from my current perspective.

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Last edited by mjkeat; 08-24-2012 at 18:09..
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Old 08-24-2012, 18:32   #43
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Incidents such as? Just trying to learn. 8 30 round mags seems to be quite a bit from my current perspective.

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Early on in my career, in 1980, I was involved in a bank robbery/pursuit where a Deputy was killed, numerous Deputies and Officers were shot, a helicopter was shot down, and several thousands of rounds of ammunition were fired. Then fast forward to 1997, and deja vu all over again. Again my agency was involved in a band robbery where several thousand rounds were fired, and numerous officers and bystanders were shot. In 1999, again, my agency was involved with an active shooter who shot numerous people at a Jewish Synagogue. And intertwined in those high profile events have been several hundred shootings my agency has been involved in, not with thousands of rounds fired, but many in the hundreds. I was personally present at approximately 20 of them. The last being on December 9, 2012. During that time, I have fired my weapon on duty approximately 12 times, and been shot once. So you're asking me why I carry 12 30 round magazines?
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Old 08-24-2012, 18:36   #44
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Our dept does a lot of what's affectionately become known as "left handed bull ****". A lot of guys don't like it but a few of us have embraced it. I'm right handed but left eye dominant so it works out okay to switch.

I actually carry my bug in my left side cargo pocket so when we do our bug quals that's where I draw/shoot from. First couple of times I did it & we switched to "weak hand" (which would mean changing to my strong hand if you're following at home) I got yelled at for doing the drill with the "wrong" hand & had to explain.

I'm full of left handed bullsheeeet.

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Old 08-24-2012, 18:37   #45
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Have you thought of going with a drop leg MOLLE platform and then adding FASTMAGs to the platform?

I would think you could get as least 2 probably 3 M4/AR15 mags. You can then add FASTMAG pistol mags to the rifle mag holders.
Another option. I'm open to pretty much anything. I'm liking the one in my OP more and more.

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Old 08-24-2012, 18:57   #46
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I would get a plate carrier. I have one with 3 30 round pmags, 3 extra glock 22 mags, 3 zip cuffs, and a medical kit. I am not "allowed" to wear one either...but I'd love to meet the guy who is going to yell at you for wearing it when rounds start flying...

I hear ya. The problem is storage and logistics of moving it in and out of my assigned car without a boss seeing it.
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Old 08-24-2012, 19:45   #47
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Early on in my career, in 1980, I was involved in a bank robbery/pursuit where a Deputy was killed, numerous Deputies and Officers were shot, a helicopter was shot down, and several thousands of rounds of ammunition were fired. Then fast forward to 1997, and deja vu all over again. Again my agency was involved in a band robbery where several thousand rounds were fired, and numerous officers and bystanders were shot. In 1999, again, my agency was involved with an active shooter who shot numerous people at a Jewish Synagogue. And intertwined in those high profile events have been several hundred shootings my agency has been involved in, not with thousands of rounds fired, but many in the hundreds. I was personally present at approximately 20 of them. The last being on December 9, 2012. During that time, I have fired my weapon on duty approximately 12 times, and been shot once. So you're asking me why I carry 12 30 round magazines?
In these engagements how many rounds did you fire personally? How many rounds did each officer fire on average? How many suspects were involved in each of these engagements?

To be clear I only ask after seeing some of these rigs w/ more extensive load-outs than some of our Infantry guys.

Not questioning the decision just asking.
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Old 08-24-2012, 20:01   #48
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Does this have a molle option to attach to a vest? I've got a tac vest that I'm planning to add hard plates to as well as mags & a first aid kit. This looks like it wouldn't take up too much real estate.
The pistol mag pouch fits on any molle system, but the AR mag pouch is actually part of the thigh mount itself. I bet TAG sells the AR shingle pack in a molle version by itself though, or if they don't they might be able to make it for you.
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Old 08-24-2012, 21:06   #49
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As officers do any of you see a time where there would ever be a need for some of these rigs w/ 5+ rifle mags?

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Absolutely.

Why do you feel that I shouldn't?


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Old 08-24-2012, 21:36   #50
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Thanks Cheesy, now you got me thinking about ditching my bail out bag for a thigh rig.... Do they make those in Mongo size??
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Old 08-24-2012, 22:19   #51
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Absolutely.

Why do you feel that I shouldn't?


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What about my question would make you think I do?

Let me ask another question. Are these 8-12 mag carriers/rigs going in the trunks of your everyday patrol officer or on the backs of SRT/SWAT?

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Old 08-24-2012, 23:10   #52
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Quote:
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What about my question would make you think I do?

Let me ask another question. Are these 8-12 mag carriers/rigs going in the trunks of your everyday patrol officer or on the backs of SRT/SWAT?
Who do you think will be at an incident first?
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Old 08-24-2012, 23:34   #53
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Who do you think will be at an incident first?
The suspect and victims along w/ bystanders/witnesses. That's a joke. I think people missed the point and/or misunderstood my original post.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:08   #54
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What about my question would make you think I do?

Let me ask another question. Are these 8-12 mag carriers/rigs going in the trunks of your everyday patrol officer or on the backs of SRT/SWAT?
I don't have the detailed stats and data you're looking for, nor would I be inclined to post that kind of detail here if I did (which is probably why you haven't gotten an answer from people who do have that data) but maybe I can shed some light.

Most of what you are seeing in this discussion is a desire by individual officers to be prepared for a worst-case scenario even if their administration doesn't see an immediate need for it.

Having a kit in your trunk to address something like a Columbine or North Hollywood shootout should be the new "normal" for SHTF thinking. Some people will say "That's never happened HERE, it's overkill and unnecessary." Well, it had never happened in Columbine either... until it did.

Wouldn't you prefer to have Cheesy or SAR or SCSU74 or socalchuckster responding to your kids school if something like that happened vs Barney Fife? So sure, it may look like a lot, especially since no one expects something like that to happen in their city tomorrow... but none of these guys expect that it won't happen and are doing all they can to be ready when it does.

My $.02

BTW - I suspect most are putting kits together out of their own pockets or via uniform allowance.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:21   #55
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Hell my dept doesn't even have SWAT/SRT/SQUIRT/SORT/ or what ever you call it in your city....

Everything in my bag has been purchased out of my own pocket or "acquired"... We don't get a uniform allowance.

I'm of the opinion it's not a matter of if but when something major will occur in my city, weather it be an active shooter event, a hostage situation, a barricaded person or who knows what...
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:40   #56
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Originally Posted by GumbyDammit View Post

Most of what you are seeing in this discussion is a desire by individual officers to be prepared for a worst-case scenario even if their administration doesn't see an immediate need for it.

Having a kit in your trunk to address something like a Columbine or North Hollywood shootout should be the new "normal" for SHTF thinking. Some people will say "That's never happened HERE, it's overkill and unnecessary." Well, it had never happened in Columbine either... until it did.

Wouldn't you prefer to have Cheesy or SAR or SCSU74 or socalchuckster responding to your kids school if something like that happened vs Barney Fife? So sure, it may look like a lot, especially since no one expects something like that to happen in their city tomorrow... but none of these guys expect that it won't happen and are doing all they can to be ready when it does.

My $.02

BTW - I suspect most are putting kits together out of their own pockets or via uniform allowance.
Thank you for the rresponse

Preparedness is golden regardless if it's my child'school they are responding to or not. One is none. Right?

Could these large kits, not the 3-5 but the 12 mag rigs, be a hindrance? How important is mobility in an active shooter scenario? I ask be cause I don't know. My only experience is in patrolling the mountains of Afghan. Even then, w/ large ambushes looming mobility under contact was important and we adjusted our load-out.

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Hell my dept doesn't even have SWAT/SRT/SQUIRT/SORT/ or what ever you call it in your city....

Everything in my bag has been purchased out of my own pocket or "acquired"... We don't get a uniform allowance.

I'm of the opinion it's not a matter of if but when something major will occur in my city, weather it be an active shooter event, a hostage situation, a barricaded person or who knows what...
Thank you for and everyone else taking it upon yourself to bridge the gap left by your department.

Last edited by mjkeat; 08-25-2012 at 08:41..
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Old 08-25-2012, 14:01   #57
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Could these large kits, not the 3-5 but the 12 mag rigs, be a hindrance? How important is mobility in an active shooter scenario? I ask be cause I don't know. My only experience is in patrolling the mountains of Afghan. Even then, w/ large ambushes looming mobility under contact was important and we adjusted our load-out.
Ok, well, seeing as how you mention Afghanistan, I'll shed a little more light. A few years ago, our Department learned that intel had been recovered in AFPAK outlining detailed attack plans on US soil. Our city was featured prominently and was considered a primary target of opportunity by Al Qaeda. When the Mumbai attacks happened, the powers to be on our Department determined that we had to somehow prepare for the eventuality of such an attack within our own city. So while it may sound farfetched to you, it doesn't when put into context. How much armor and how many rounds do you need to go up against a trained group of terrorists with a willingness to die? So we ramped up training, and issued rifles and armor. Just so you know, the armor I have was issued to me. I didn't just go out and buy it at the mall ninja store. As far as loadout, our policy dictates how much I have to carry. For so many years, officers complained about being outgunned on the streets. I have absolutely no complaints that the pendulum is swinging the other way. It's just too bad it took 4,000+ innocent civilians dying before people started to wake up and smell the coffee.

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Old 08-25-2012, 15:03   #58
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
In these engagements how many rounds did you fire personally? How many rounds did each officer fire on average? How many suspects were involved in each of these engagements?

To be clear I only ask after seeing some of these rigs w/ more extensive load-outs than some of our Infantry guys.

Not questioning the decision just asking.
If you are asking questions like the above, yes you are questioning the decision. It's simple - he doesn't want to run out of ammo, and carries a lot. With good reason. I detect a strong hint of "you don't need that much" in your questions. Otherwise, why are you asking him how may round he fired and what the average was per officer (about as dumb a question as I've heard - ammo should be issued or carried based on the average of the last engagement? Do they do that in the military now? Or do they let you carry as much in your truck as you can get and carry on your person what you feel is appropriate? I think I know the answer.
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Old 08-25-2012, 15:30   #59
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Ok, well, seeing as how you mention Afghanistan, I'll shed a little more light. A few years ago, our Department learned that intel had been recovered in AFPAK outlining detailed attack plans on US soil. Our city was featured prominently and was considered a primary target of opportunity by Al Qaeda. When the Mumbai attacks happened, the powers to be on our Department determined that we had to somehow prepare for the eventuality of such an attack within our own city. So while it may sound farfetched to you, it doesn't when put into context. How much armor and how many rounds do you need to go up against a trained group of terrorists with a willingness to die? So we ramped up training, and issued rifles and armor. Just so you know, the armor I have was issued to me. I didn't just go out and buy it at the mall ninja store. As far as loadout, our policy dictates how much I have to carry. For so many years, officers complained about being outgunned on the streets. I have absolutely no complaints that the pendulum is swinging the other way. It's just too bad it took 4,000+ innocent civilians dying before people started to wake up and smell the coffee.

v/r
Well it's nice that your department has the funding to issue your kit.

I agree, it's nice to an increase in available tools. To bad it had to happen after the fact.

Were the complaints about being outguned refereing to the weapons available or amount of ammunition at hand?


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If you are asking questions like the above, yes you are questioning the decision. It's simple - he doesn't want to run out of ammo, and carries a lot. With good reason. I detect a strong hint of "you don't need that much" in your questions. Otherwise, why are you asking him how may round he fired and what the average was per officer (about as dumb a question as I've heard - ammo should be issued or carried based on the average of the last engagement? Do they do that in the military now? Or do they let you carry as much in your truck as you can get and carry on your person what you feel is appropriate? I think I know the answer.
Your assumptions are wrong, the question was not to question.

If you're going to call names such as "dumb" I'd recommend you read your posts before hitting submit.

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I had no intention other than to pick the brains here in this sub-forum. It seems like it's a semi touchy subject. Sorry if my post was misunderstood and upset anyone.

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Old 08-25-2012, 17:21   #60
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I hear ya. The problem is storage and logistics of moving it in and out of my assigned car without a boss seeing it.
http://www.oakley.com/products/1258/16314

enough room for a 10x12 carrier, helmet and drop leg mag pouch
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