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Old 07-06-2012, 17:06   #121
countrygun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arquebus12 View Post
tickticktickticktickticktick

The best part is, to make it easy for him, my quote came directly from wikipedia. Now he is going to have to go after them for being part of the conspiracy.


I will repost a part for clarity,


(from wiki)

"All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21."

"The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation"



Now it is a total joke to try and make hay out of the fact that the hijaker's remains were identified by "process of elimination". How else were they going to do it?? Very few of ANY of the passengers were identified by any means short of DNA. They all were finally with the cooperation of their families and DNA samples.

4 people hijacked the plane and there were 4 "sets" of remains unidentified and no DNA samples or comparators from family members.

Now, just how in the heck you can spin all of that into your "conspiracy theory I do not know. The identified remains account for the known passengers and crew, and four "left over" account for the 4 hijackers.

Based on the real FACTS
I call your statement,

"No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before"

a blatant lie,



and the "Question" is about as significant as a question about their middle initials.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:56   #122
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flight 93.
Saeed al-Ghamdi is alive and well in the Middle East. Our government has apologized to him and his family. ETA: I just found out he was studying to be a pilot after 9-11.

How can it be possible he is still alive? Seeing how his was one of the passports that was listed as found at the crash sight in Pennsylvania.

Anyway, moot point and unnecessary question as UA Flight 93 was recognized by Air Traffic Control (hereafter: ATC) as airborne after the alleged impact time of 10:03AM.

ATC personnel understood and recognized UA Flight 93 as having an altitude due to its transponder being active. Professional pilots advise that transponders will NOT report an altitude to ATC after a crash, and especially not after a crash such as was supposed to have been sustained by UA Flight 93 in/near Shanksville, Penn.

ATC personnel further confirmed, through the use of radar, that UA Flight 93's position as having been North-39 51, by West-78 46, and they did so AFTER the alleged 10:03AM time of impact. (NOTE: This longitude and latitude coordinate point is several miles beyond the alleged crash sight in Pennsylvania.)

No, the entire story concerning the list of hijackers is just more stuff our government is lying about. You believe what you want, but I ain't buying it.
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 07-07-2012 at 06:57..
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:43   #123
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FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.


IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:56   #124
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Who is Peace Warrior?

He/she is an anonymous internet poster who by his own admissions was not present at the WTC site during or after the attack.

He acknowledges not having been a part of the investigation.

He admits that all of his theories stem from his extensive watching of internet conspiracy theorist websites.

He admits having no engineering or law enforcement background.

However, despite all of that he presents himself as an expert and demands that you believe his unfounded theories and distorted half truths.

Who am I? A retired Lieutenant of the NYPD. I was present at the WTC during the attacks and for four months afterwards at both the WTC and the landfill where subsequent evidence recovery was conducted upon the debris that had been removed off-site.

I worked the investigation intimately and along with the FBI and ATF. I was present at numerous briefings in the weeks after the event which detailed the status of the ongoing investigation and sought input from those of us working the sites.

I recovered evidence, both physical as well as human remains.

I DO NOT ASK THAT YOU BELIEVE ME.

I do, however, ask that you trust in the physical evidence and the intensity of the investigation conducted.

Don't put your trust and faith in a nameless internet poster whose knowledge is derived solely from internet conspiracy websites.

Base your judgements on the evidence recovered and the timelines of the event as they have been established through the detailed and thorough investigations that were conducted by professionals. Men and women who were deeply invested in the case and who had no agenda other than to find the TRUTH. People who swore oaths to uphold and defend the constitution and to serve and protect the American public.

That's who I request the readers put their faith in and trust.

The decision is up to you.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:03   #125
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Did not know that about you, Sean... hat's off to you for your efforts, and I'm sorry for the pain you've had to endure because of those same attacks.

I have a hobby of sorts, wherein I try to identify the motivations for peoples' actions. I'm no psychiatrist, but I do enjoy learning how things work. This could include sub-atomic particles, fuel injection systems, parliamentary procedures, cooking, archery, music, etc, but most especially people and societies. It's never been a waste of time, that's certain, although some of it could have certainly been spent doing more productive things.

That said, when I look at people like Peace Warrior, and focus on the motivations of someone like him, it's too easy to label him as nuts or write him off as crazy, because it doesn't address root causes. With him, and many others just like him, it's almost universally an ego driven response, and the means to that end are self-justifying.

By that, I mean that by pointing out "It's a conspiracy", he does several things at once: He isolates himself from the mainstream, most likely for the attention it results in him getting. He also further distances himself by implying that "He's smarter than the rest", because only he and a few other perceptive types are capable of being able to see past the illusions and/or cover ups that have been put in place. There's a heroic aspect to it, also, in that he's trying to tear down this curtain of prevarications, and reveal to the rest of the world "the truth". In his mind, he'll be praised for exposing the falsehoods, and for delivering the people out of darkness. Even this guy's handle, Peace Warrior, has a romantic-heroic connotation to it, an indicator of the source of his motivations.

The self-perpetuation comes in the form of rejection of his theories; by being dismissed by non-conspiricists, it's evidence showing that the accuser is either too stupid or part of the conspiracy itself. Again, he's smart enough to see past this ruse. That's the fun part of it.

And he has to assume that, because the alternative is to admit that he's wrong, and has in fact been looking very foolish for a very long time as a result (the distinctly non-fun part). That's something that's difficult for a healthy minded person to reconcile, and impossible for someone who has too much invested (literally and figuratively) in this particular pursuit. And the part of the psyche that would take the biggest hit is also the part that NEEDS for a conspiracy to be true, that being the ego. He'd have to accept the fact that he was wrong, and simultaneously re-enter mainstream thinking while appearing foolish in the eyes of all those he deliberately contravened with his theories.

Self righteousness, especially when it's expressed as "You ain't fooling ME...!" is powerful medicine, and is overly abused. The cure is rational thought via discipline and education, and identifying the actual motivation for someone to go deliberately against the grain. I'm all for rebellion, it's mind expanding, and often makes for great advances in societies. It's also a complete waste of time more often than not, but it does teach the rebel the reasoning behind whatever it is that he's rebelling against.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:01   #126
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senamac, you have little to worry about IMO. The division has alreadybeen made between those who know reality when they see it and those who refuse to admit it and cling to wild-eyed theories. The latter group are basically running around trying to reassure each other by being annoying on legitimate forums when they get a little bored within their own circle-jerk.

Many people have enough experience to understand the confusion that takes place around the events as they unfold. I have had 2 friends involved in "incidents" that garnered national publicity, one survived, one did not. There were conflicting reports and confusion on the ground, and I was involved on the ground in one incident (not knowing that my friend was aboard) which ironically involved a passenger jet.

Too many people have never really had to do "the job" at an accident scene. They watch CSI

"Look, there is a fingernail clipping, bag it. We'll put it in the mass speculum electorstatic colon irrigator, and identify who it belonged to. By the end of the show we will know their name, collar size, credit rating and average seminal output of the suspect."

The people who expect the real world to work that way have never been up to their elbows in things never to be described. A friend of mine calls them "Cackling "shine"birds" . (Of course I edited in "shine" for something else.)

There are those who don't want to face the reality, that a small group of nutjobs could pull this off. My experience, that I outlined, tells me it is exactly what happened. Unfortunately for those folks having a hard time accepting that, there are those of petty lives that inflate themselves with claims that THEY in their great wisdom have DIVINED the truth, IT IS ALL A CONSPIRACY they announce, as the confused, and shocked gather around them and their soap box.

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Old 07-09-2012, 11:29   #127
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Too often the truth is obvious and simple.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:18   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmac45 View Post
IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.
^ this, this, THIS

Supporting the conspiracy theory is just re-victimizing the victims, and their loved ones. And on top of that, it's insinuating that mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/sons/daughters etc. all knowingly and willingly kept quite and allowed their mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/sons/daughters etc. to die, and then kept quiet about the "truth" on behalf of the government.

I don't like our government. I don't support our government, and I do not approve of what it's become. I also know that our government is capable of committing atrocious acts.

BUT I do have enough faith in this (MY) country's citizens to KNOW that they would not willingly sacrifice their own personal loved ones, their own flesh and blood, by the thousands, for a government conspiracy.

It is also interesting, PW, that you haven't even so much as acknowledged Sean's existence in this thread...

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Old 08-25-2012, 18:45   #129
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If nothing else the conspiracy nuts make for some entertaining reading. Shows just how out of touch with reality some of the people in this counrty are, kind of scary.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:39   #130
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Conspiracy theorists are just people who desperately want attention and to find a meaning and point to their existance. Taking normal things and turning and then agrandizing them makes them feel important.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:03   #131
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Conspiracy theorists are just people who desperately want attention and to find a meaning and point to their existance. Taking normal things and turning and then agrandizing them makes them feel important.

I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:10   #132
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I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"
True.
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Old 09-28-2012, 21:32   #133
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It is easy to prove that the planes that crashed are indeed the ones from the two airlines.
There are only so many 757s and 767s produced, Boeing knows where every single one of them is. (Boeing a co conspirator?)
Airliners have a very large number of serialized parts and detailed records are kept. Not only do they know from the part numbers which plane they came from, they also know every plane they have been installed and removed from.
Engine manufacturers, component manufacturers, all keep records. Unless of course everybody is part of the conspiracy.
The only question I might have is whether any intelligence services knew or suspected anything. Fox News had an article in the days following 911 claiming that there were some people that might have known.
I saw on the news a long time ago a one story shopping center (clothes, shoes etc) that caught fire. After the fire was put out you could see the I beams from the roof sagging, looking like bananas and that was from clothes and everyday items that burned, not high BTU jet fuel. If that building was multistory it would have collapsed under its own weight.
The second building that got hit was the first to collapse. IMO it went down first because it was hit lower and there was more weight above the impact area. The second building to collapse would have probably lasted a bit longer if it wasn't for the ground vibrations from the first collapse.
YMMV
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:29   #134
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http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-e...rts-speak-out/

It is interesting that one thing no one has mentioned yet that where that whatever it was that hit the pentagon hit was the computer room. The back up site for pentagon data was in wtc7. One day before 9/11 happened, Rumsfeld held a press conference and announced that there was a couple trillion dollars missing from the pentagon budget over the past so many years that they couldn't account for. And magically, all evidence of where it might have went disappeared at both the pentagon and wtc7. That is some coincidence! Especially considering that bldg 7 was. Barely touched and was on fire inside before the second plane ever hit.
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Old 09-30-2012, 21:43   #135
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http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-e...rts-speak-out/

It is interesting that one thing no one has mentioned yet that where that whatever it was that hit the pentagon hit was the computer room. The back up site for pentagon data was in wtc7. One day before 9/11 happened, Rumsfeld held a press conference and announced that there was a couple trillion dollars missing from the pentagon budget over the past so many years that they couldn't account for. And magically, all evidence of where it might have went disappeared at both the pentagon and wtc7. That is some coincidence! Especially considering that bldg 7 was. Barely touched and was on fire inside before the second plane ever hit.
Lol. Well, at least I never heard this one yet.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:27   #136
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Please post a link to the Rumsfeld press conference. Since the Republicans were in charge CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, the New York Times would have been all over that story in the early morning news before the planes started impacting. I then worked for the DoD and don't remember reading about that briefing on my office PC first thing that morning.

Since my computer continued to work that day the WTC back up center story seems far fetched. There may have been lines to the government offices in the WTC but nothing more significant in a public non secure building. (I know there is no security against a 747.)

PT Barnum of "There's a sucker born every minute" fame would have loved the internet.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:33   #137
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I'll put it this way.

Conspiracy nuts put too much stock in what they see instead of what they don't see.

I have a friend who has been an airline pilot for twenty years. I asked him what they biggest sign of an aircraft emergency was. He said most passengers never realize when an aircraft is really in trouble (and when you hit turbulence is almost never that time).

He says the best sign is when you are getting out of the plane and the pilots door is still shut. He said that is because they are trying to pull the seat covers out of their asses where they got sucked up because they were so scared.

It's what you don't see that matters.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:35   #138
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Please post a link to the Rumsfeld press conference. Since the Republicans were in charge CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, the New York Times would have been all over that story in the early morning news before the planes started impacting. I then worked for the DoD and don't remember reading about that briefing on my office PC first thing that morning.

Since my computer continued to work that day the WTC back up center story seems far fetched. There may have been lines to the government offices in the WTC but nothing more significant in a public non secure building. (I know there is no security against a 747.)

PT Barnum of "There's a sucker born every minute" fame would have loved the internet.

yep....

lots of suckers out there.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:19   #139
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Trying to tie "routine" issues with big budget government organizations to the events of 9/11 is a stretch.

If you will do some research of your own, this was also discussed before 9/10/01 and over the course of at least of half dozen presidents' administrations.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned.......to be behind the power curve.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:55   #140
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Trying to tie "routine" issues with big budget government organizations to the events of 9/11 is a stretch.

If you will do some research of your own, this was also discussed before 9/10/01 and over the course of at least of half dozen presidents' administrations.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned.......to be behind the power curve.
Richard...

you and I are both entitled to believe what we want to. But to me, there is just way too much that doesnt add up to believe the official version.

Did you know that ALL of the video camera's (85 cameras on the pentagon) tapes were confiscated by the FBI within hours of the event, and it took 5years of lawsuits to get the 5 second video that they hold up as evidence of a "plane" striking the pentagon.

Norman Mineta, the transportation seceratary under bush was in the bunker with Dick Cheney and hear cheney continue the order that fighter jets "stand down" when the "plane" was 10 miles out. And yet, mineta was not asked to testify for the nine eleven commission, and the video of his appearance before congress has since been stricken from the record.

Numerous pilots have tried on training simulators to replicate the feat of flying an airliner at 575 mph (which was 110 knots over the planes max operating speed) into a building that low and no one has been able to replicate it?

There were no engines, no fuselage, no bodies, no luggage, seats, tail section, nothing that would indicate a boeing airliner had hit the pentagon. It vaporized? What? Time jump? Was the flux capacitor ever found?

The same thing in the field in pennsylvania. No airplane parts, blood, bodies or body parts, nothing. Same story? they all vaporized?

Really? And those who doubt the official version of events are kooks and fools? Right....
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