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Old 08-28-2012, 16:03   #101
Arc Angel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Arc Angel - My sincere thanks for your posts. Your sage advice is priceless in this place where we chat so mindlessly about carrying and using deadly weapons. I hope you'll save these posts to be inserted into future threads regarding C1 carry.

You and Dave Armstrong provide a very badly needed dose of reality in a debate that is heavy with bravado and light on common sense. Its a debate that appears often because many people new to concealed carry are keenly aware of the lethality of their weapons and want meaningful guidance.

Here is a post that, in my opinion, highlights the influence of bad advice on folks new to concealed carry: "I have been carrying less than a week now. At first I put the gun in my laptop bag unchambered. After driving about 1 mile I thought that's pretty useless. Pulled over...pulled out my G23 and racked the slide....Has been chambered ever since."

With due respect to those who argue against your views, I strongly support your more conservative opinion regarding C1 carry.
Thanks, PhotoFeller! You, also, write well; in fact, your prose almost achieves poetry! (It flatters me to know that you agree with, at least, some of my viewpoints.)

I, also, miss David Armstrong. David knew how to present interesting comments on important relevant subjects; and he always expressed himself well. David had a gift for knowing how to challenge others to think while at the same time avoiding outright rancor in his replies. (NOT an easy thing to do!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
Arc Angel- do you ever carry condition 1? If so, how do you determine need, exposure, experience to make you go between the two conditions?

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)

Am I understanding you right that you deem it inherently dangerous to go c-1? (by exposing others to my condition 1?)

The very Internet your condemning, is the same one your using to get your point across. Some just has to be taken with a grain of salt .....
OK, I’ll try to sort some of this out for you: ‘Do I ever carry in C-1?’ Well, I’ve often posted comments to the effect that I USUALLY carry in C-3. Which is NOT to say that I never carry in C-1.

How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?) You might as well ask me how I know if it’s raining outside? Actually, I’m a little surprised by some of your remarks: This isn’t really about me or my prerequisites; instead it’s about other people and theirs. ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.

I already know - and have occasionally demonstrated that I understand - what I’m supposed to do when threatened with physical violence. What is more, on those occasions when I’ve been either mentally or spiritually, ‘asleep at the wheel’ ……. well, quite frankly, The Good Lord has always seen me safely through. You might not believe this; but, I do: ‘O’ Lord, well do I know, it is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.’ (Jeremiah 10:23) Therefore, by a serendipitous combination of BOTH acquired personal acumen, and eventful circumstance I have, somehow, managed to achieve my present age. Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)

I don’t believe you really said that! Are you being difficult or just plain peevish? Do I really need to say that I carry a pistol, or two pistols, around with me all day long, 365 days a year, AND sleep with one underneath my pillow every night? (I’ve made this remark, over and over again, on Glock Talk since all the way back in 2003!) I don’t do this because I’m irrationally paranoid. I’m not paranoid; I’m a Christian and have no need to be obsessively afraid. I do this because the neighborhood in which I live requires me to remain alert and to behave in this way.

(Remember what I said about my next door neighbor taking 5 rounds through his dining room window at 1:30 in the morning? This is an event which actually happened and not that long ago, either. In fact the bullet holes have never been removed from that window. I could walk across the street, right now, and take a picture of them. Then, again, I might end up getting shot, myself, if I were to try!)

Does any of this sound to you like a guy who only carries his gun to places that he thinks are bad?

When you assert that I tend to personally condemn other civilian gunmen who routinely carry their pistols around in C-1, you are correct. It is my considered opinion that this, ‘C-1 loophole’ in many state firearm carry laws has been allowed to creep into current gun legislation in order to induce an increased frequency of ND/AD events and, thus, arouse the general public’s ire against all forms of civilian firearm carry.

(In other words: If you can’t beat your political opponents then frustrate them, instead; and offer increased opportunities for them to hurt, both, themselves and others. Perhaps when you get older all this will make more sense to you; but, in my experience, this is one of the ways in which subtle men think; AND, in this day and age, there are a great many, 'subtle men' interested in destroying our invaluable Second Amendment Rights. All they really need in order to succeed is for general public opinion to significantly swing their way. Once that happens, your Second Amendment Rights are finished!)

Finally, I don’t condemn the Internet; I treat it with a great deal of circumspection and suspicion, instead. As for me, ‘getting my point across’ in cyberspace? Realistically, people being people, that doesn’t happen very often! I consider myself lucky if I’m merely able to successfully encourage other people TO THINK about what it is that they are trying to do. Generally speaking, people are largely creatures of emotion; and, as such, they very seldom change their minds of their own free will. Being right or wrong doesn’t really matter; and would you like to know, ‘Why’? Because the human mind cannot not see, and will not consider, whatever the mortal heart finds repulsive and refuses to accept.

Internet, or not, I have absolutely no illusions about my presumed effect on others. No matter what, ‘Arc Angel’ thinks, no matter what he says, writes, or does, ‘the world’ around me is going to hold on fast to its own predestined course. I’m old enough (and, hopefully, wise enough) to realize that only a few people are ever going to benefit from whatever I have to say. That’s people; and, that’s people on the Internet, too. Sometimes ideas get exchanged; but, more often, all they ever get is argued over - C'est tout!
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Old 08-28-2012, 17:58   #102
Droid noob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Thanks, PhotoFeller! You, also, write well; in fact, your prose almost achieves poetry! (It flatters me to know that you agree with, at least, some of my viewpoints.)

I, also, miss David Armstrong. David knew how to present interesting comments on important relevant subjects; and he always expressed himself well. David had a gift for knowing how to challenge others to think while at the same time avoiding outright rancor in his replies. (NOT an easy thing to do!)



OK, I’ll try to sort some of this out for you: ‘Do I ever carry in C-1?’ Well, I’ve often posted comments to the effect that I USUALLY carry in C-3. Which is NOT to say that I never carry in C-1.

How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?) I was paraphrasing. You might as well ask me how I know if it’s raining outside? Actually, I’m a little surprised by some of your remarks: This isn’t really about me or my prerequisites; instead it’s about other people and theirs. ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.
I was asking what YOUR requirements were for choosing c-1 or c-3.

I already know - and have occasionally demonstrated that I understand - what I’m supposed to do when threatened with physical violence. What is more, on those occasions when I’ve been either mentally or spiritually, ‘asleep at the wheel’ ……. well, quite frankly, The Good Lord has always seen me safely through. You might not believe this; but, I do: ‘O’ Lord, well do I know, it is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.’ (Jeremiah 10:23) Therefore, by a serendipitous combination of BOTH acquired personal acumen, and eventful circumstance I have, somehow, managed to achieve my present age. Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?
Wow.

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)’

I don’t believe you really said that! Why is that shocking? I thought it was a good analogy. Are you being difficult or just plain peevish? I guess that's for you to decide. I meant neither to be honest. Do I really need to say that I carry a pistol, or two pistols, around with me all day long, 365 days a year, AND sleep with one underneath my pillow every night? (I’ve made this remark, over and over again, on Glock Talk since all the way back in 2003!) I don’t do this because I’m irrationally paranoid. I’m not paranoid; I’m a Christian and have no need to be obsessively afraid. I do this because the neighborhood in which I live requires me to remain alert and to behave in this way.

(Remember what I said about my next door neighbor taking 5 rounds through his dining room window at 1:30 in the morning? This is an event which actually happened and not that long ago, either. In fact the bullet holes have never been removed from that window. I could walk across the street, right now, and take a picture of them. Then, again, I might end up getting shot, myself, if I were to try!)

Does any of this sound to you like a guy who only carries his gun to places that he thinks are bad?

When you assert that I tend to personally condemn other civilian gunmen who routinely carry their pistols around in C-1, you are correct. It is my considered opinion that this, ‘C-1 loophole’ in many state firearm carry laws has been allowed to creep into current gun legislation in order to induce an increased frequency of ND/AD events and, thus, arouse the general public’s ire against all forms of civilian firearm carry.

(In other words: If you can’t beat your political opponents then frustrate them, instead; and offer increased opportunities for them to hurt, both, themselves and others. Perhaps when you get older all this will make more sense to you; but, in my experience, this is one of the ways in which subtle men think; AND, in this day and age, there are a great many, 'subtle men' interested in destroying our invaluable Second Amendment Rights. All they really need in order to succeed is for general public opinion to significantly swing their way. Once that happens, your Second Amendment Rights are finished!)
It's a little frustrating being demeaned by someone who thinks their opinion has more value because they are older in years.
Finally, I don’t condemn the Internet; I treat it with a great deal of circumspection and suspicion, instead. As for me, ‘getting my point across’ in cyberspace? Realistically, people being people, that doesn’t happen very often! I consider myself lucky if I’m merely able to successfully encourage other people TO THINK about what it is that they are trying to do. Generally speaking, people are largely creatures of emotion; and, as such, they very seldom change their minds of their own free will. Being right or wrong doesn’t really matter; and would you like to know, ‘Why’? Because the human mind cannot not see, and will not consider, whatever the mortal heart finds repulsive and refuses to accept.

Internet, or not, I have absolutely no illusions about my presumed effect on others. No matter what, ‘Arc Angel’ thinks, no matter what he says, writes, or does, ‘the world’ around me is going to hold on fast to its own predestined course. I’m old enough (and, hopefully, wise enough) to realize that only a few people are ever going to benefit from whatever I have to say. That’s people; and, that’s people on the Internet, too. Sometimes ideas get exchanged; but, more often, all they ever get is argued over - C'est tout!
I'm trying not to come across rude. I'm simply trying to understand your perspective on condition 1 being inherently dangerous. Also, how you weigh the risk verse reward for the occasional condition 1 carry you mentioned. I think we can actually agree that anyone that exercises their 2nd Amendment right should be proactive in their firearm training. This includes firearm safety when it's holstered or not.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:51   #103
Arc Angel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
‘How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?)’

I was paraphrasing.
No you weren’t! (And I think you know it, too.) If you're going to argue with me on the Internet, please, FIGHT CLEAN! You were selectively quoting me in an effort to bolster your derogatory insinuations against, both, myself as well as the arguments I presented. (Again, I think you know exactly what you’re doing; and, now, you’re being obfuscatory and less than honest in your reply.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
‘ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.’

I was asking what YOUR requirements were for choosing c-1 or c-3.
I recognize what you’re asking. The point remains that you should NOT have placed the focus on me. You should have looked at yourself and your own behavior, instead. (I do, however, appreciate, ‘Why’ you don’t want to do that.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
‘Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?’

Wow.
You’re right! ‘Knowledge and experience’ have little to do with any of your replies. I see that you are, already, an extraordinarily subtle thinker. Even the form in which you have chosen to quote me makes it difficult and laborious for me to pick your comments out of my quoted text so that I can make adequate reply. It would have been SO MUCH EASIER to address you if you had used standard forum quotation protocol. (The same way that I have done, here, with you.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
‘I don’t believe you really said that!’

Why is that shocking? I thought it was a good analogy.
Do you ever come at a subject head-on, and in a straightforward manner? All this, ‘dancing around’ is starting to get tiring. You wrote an uncalled for insult; one that I’m sure you are, additionally, aware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
‘Are you being difficult or just plain peevish?’

I guess that's for you to decide. I meant neither to be honest.
Did you say, 'honest'! Now, from you, THAT would be refreshing! If you’re offering me a choice then I’m going to go with BOTH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
It's a little frustrating being demeaned by someone who thinks their opinion has more value because they are older in years.
TELL ME ABOUT IT!

Whatever the reasons, some opinions are worth more than others. Here, I find it entertaining that you’ve chosen to resort to casting more aspersions against me, personally, rather than to address either the premises or logic behind any of my arguments.

(We, both, have to be careful not to turn this into an, ‘Internet pissing contest’, huh!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid noob View Post
I'm trying not to come across rude. I'm simply trying to understand your perspective on condition 1 being inherently dangerous. Also, how you weigh the risk verse reward for the occasional condition 1 carry you mentioned. I think we can actually agree that anyone that exercises their 2nd Amendment right should be proactive in their firearm training. This includes firearm safety when it's holstered or not.
Ahh, Droid, this isn’t, ‘my first rodeo’. I don’t think that you’re trying to come across as rude; I really don’t. Neither do I believe that you’re, ‘simply trying to understand my perspective’. Your actual interest is obvious. You clearly want to destroy the argument by, first, destroying the man. Is it OK with you if I decide not to go peacefully!

Let's end this; shall we!
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