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Old 09-20-2012, 19:31   #51
PCJim
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Power factor has absolutely nothing to do with reloading. It is a crude means of determining an energy level that is used in competitive shooting sports, to try to prevent "gamers" from shooting powder puff loads in an attempt to obtain a competitive edge over other shooters.

As mentioned before, Lee's reloading is nothing more than a compilation of reloading data from many varied sources. The problem with Lee's data is that you have no idea of the bullet profile, barrel length, the testing apparatus or any of a number of other variables surrounding the component selection. That is why we don't put much faith in Lee's data. sure, it is reliable data but under what testing conditions and with what specific components?

Your intention of using Lyman's data and that of your powder manufacturer is a good start.
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Old 09-20-2012, 19:31   #52
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Load 4.0 and see what it does. I think you 3.8 is a little low.
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Old 09-20-2012, 21:27   #53
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Load 4.0 and see what it does. I think you 3.8 is a little low.
Good. I just loaded 50 rounds using 4.0gn of Accurate #2. I've also snugged up the crimp die just a hair. Tomorrow, I'll stop at the range and try out the rounds.

I'll report the results.

I really want to thank you guys for your sound advise. When ever I post a question about reloading, I come away a little smarter.

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Old 09-20-2012, 22:22   #54
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Gee, where do I start? Lots of this and other conversation focuses on terms that I am not fully aquanted with. Terms line Power factors, I don't know what that is or how it is calculated, or how to make that make since to what I am trying to do. Right now, I am trying not to over do a load and damage my self, my weapon, or someone else.
The power factor calculation is described in post 35 of this thread. It is a meaningless number by itself but it can be used to compare bullet weights and velocities. But, for a given bullet weight, simply comparing velocities is enough.

Your load won't come anywhere near either Winchester White Box or Federal Champion and, in fact, if you loaded MAX with the No. 2, you still can't match what are considered marginal factory loads. And loading MAX is something to avoid.

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Until I am more experienced, I am going to stick with what is in the Lee manual and my Lyman manual. These are all that I have. I will check online and see what is on the sites of my powder manufacturer. Do I really need to go out and buy another pound of powder? I have Accurate #2 (my now favorite), Unique, and HP-38.
I don't have the Lee manual (but I do have the book) and I have Lyman's. I don't tend to use either of them. I prefer Hornady, Speer and Sierra. For rifle I use only Sierra as I use their bullets.

No. 2 is just a poor choice for the 115 gr 9mm load. However, if it works, it works. Use it! But I certainly wouldn't buy another pound.

Usually during load development, the reloader makes about 10 rounds (sometimes just 5) each of several different loadings in 0.1 gr steps between published MIN and MAX (and I stay away from MAX). At the range they are shot from MIN toward MAX and if the gun shoots well at some particular loading, there isn't a lot of excess inventory.

You need to be looking for velocity in the range of 1130 fps so load somewhere between the table values for 1100 and 1150 fps. The thing is, at the 1150 end, it would be best if it is not a MAX load. It would be better if the powder will get to 1200 or 1250 so there is some room for error in dispensing.

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Old 09-20-2012, 23:06   #55
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
You mentioned that another manual called for a recipe that was different than my Lee manual. As a new reloader, I find this difference from manual to manual to be very frustrating. So, I am looking at only one manual in this case it’s the Lee manual. I have a Lyman manual, but it also calls for different powder loads that the Lee manual calls for. There are so many recipes, I assume they are all correct, but I cannot case after this recipe today and that recipe tomorrow. [/SIZE][/FONT]

I will address your other comments in a separate posting. Got to get towork.
It's NOT a good way to reload. One data source can be actually more diff to work with, especially in the Lee manual. I always recommend as many data points as possible. Avg the data & use avg middle if you like.
On your crimp, if you can see a visible gap between bullet & case neck something isn't right for sure. Again, hate the LFCD, but it can be made to work. The seating die will also crimp, just seating & crimping have to be done in one step.
All of the powders you have will work, some better than others in the Lee measure. The load of 3.8gr of AA#2 is very light, not middle of the data at all for a 115gr bullet. Hornady lists 4.3gr as starting. Bump your charge up & fix the crimp so there is no visible gap between case mouth & bullet. It's no diff than loading for the 40.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-20-2012 at 23:10..
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:06   #56
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
It's NOT a good way to reload. One data source can be actually more diff to work with, especially in the Lee manual. I always recommend as many data points as possible. Avg the data & use avg middle if you like.
On your crimp, if you can see a visible gap between bullet & case neck something isn't right for sure. Again, hate the LFCD, but it can be made to work. The seating die will also crimp, just seating & crimping have to be done in one step.
All of the powders you have will work, some better than others in the Lee measure. The load of 3.8gr of AA#2 is very light, not middle of the data at all for a 115gr bullet. Hornady lists 4.3gr as starting. Bump your charge up & fix the crimp so there is no visible gap between case mouth & bullet. It's no diff than loading for the 40.
I've only been doing this for slightly more than a month. Before I purchased my equipment, I was reading the Lyman manual. During that period, nothing was ever mentioned about using several sources for load data. In fact, the books say to be weary of recommended load data and only follow the information in the tables. Keep in mind, someone new at this is going to play it safe and start with the lowest loads as described in the load tables.

Many of the loads in the tables are well below 1100 fps. Why is this information in the manuals if these are somehow not recommended as stated by some on this thread? Why would the manuals include these so-called light loads if they are not to be used. This is confusing to a new loader. It is confusing to have the manuals recommend starting loads that are totally contradicted by contributors to this and other reloading forums.

I thought I was doing the right thing and now I don't know what to do. Please consider the concerns of a new reloader. Consider that for a new reloader having several powders and bullets readily available on hand are not likely. i have what I have and am trying to make the best of my current inventory; such that it is.

I have three powders, only of which I like; that is the Accurate #2. I like it because it burns cleanly and it measures consistently with my equipment. I have one bullet weight, that is 115gn FMJ. Until I am able to buy other weight bullets, that is it for me.

I thank you guys for all the good advice, but at this point I am now quite confused on some important points.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:36   #57
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What is recommended is to use only published data. No one ever says only use their book. Diff test platforms, & components are why you need more than one source. There test platforms are not your gun. Your componenets are rarely exactly the book componenets. So starting data is safe but rarely going to be the best performer, particularly in semiautos that have to function not just go bang.
You should only be using one bullet & one powder to learn on. THis will keep confusion down & safety at it's highest level. All of this is confusing because you are new & unless you read every book on reloading available, taken a class &/or have a mentor, your knowledge level is minimal & learning curve steep. The more you know & understand, the less confusion you'll have. So you can bump along & figure it out your self or continue to ask question & continue to learn your new hobby. The more you know the faster you learn.
So ask questions, some of us here know quite a bit, some of us know as much as the guys writing the manuals. You don't handload 100s of 1000s of rounds of dozens of calibers & survive to tell about it doing something wrong or stupid. SOme of us reload for calibers w/o any printed reference. Yes, many of us know what we are doing. The trouble being new, you don't know enough to decide who knows more than you.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:01   #58
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Use reliable published load data, start low and work it up. Usually, mid range loads or slightly higher work best. But, nothing is set in stone.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:30   #59
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
In fact, the books say to be weary of recommended load data and only follow the information in the tables. Keep in mind, someone new at this is going to play it safe and start with the lowest loads as described in the load tables.


You should be very wary of load information obtained through Internet forums and such. Use only PUBLISHED information, either from reloading manuals, powder data manuals or powder manufacturer's web sites.

And still it won't all agree...

If good old 'Billy-Bob' gives you a load via a forum or even at the range, cross-check is against published information. If the load isn't within range in some publication, DON'T use it! It doesn't happen here but I have read where some forums have trolls providing bad information on purpose.

And NEVER trust any numbers that I type! I am getting old, my typing is poor and my eyesight isn't much either!

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Many of the loads in the tables are well below 1100 fps. Why is this information in the manuals if these are somehow not recommended as stated by some on this thread? Why would the manuals include these so-called light loads if they are not to be used. This is confusing to a new loader. It is confusing to have the manuals recommend starting loads that are totally contradicted by contributors to this and other reloading forums.


There are guns other than Glocks. I know it's hard to believe but, really, there are 9mm guns that will cycle on light loads. The Glock comes from the factory as a combat weapon and the designers expect to have full power NATO rounds. Then there is the issue with the oversprung Gen 4 9mms where Glock has gone through 4 iterations of stepping back on the recoil spring. The guns wouldn't shoot commercial ammo at all when they were first released.

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I thought I was doing the right thing and now I don't know what to do. Please consider the concerns of a new reloader. Consider that for a new reloader having several powders and bullets readily available on hand are not likely. i have what I have and am trying to make the best of my current inventory; such that it is.
One thing to do is read the stickies at the top of this forum. Among other things there is a strategy to working up loads from MIN toward (but maybe never reaching) MAX.

The other thing to do is ask questions. I don't think anyone around here would have recommended No. 2 for 115 gr 9mm. All would have probably recommended starting from MIN but they might have used a different souce and, therefore, a different MIN.

Coincidentally, there is a thread on 9mm powder going on right now. There is also a search feature for the forum.

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I have three powders, only of which I like; that is the Accurate #2. I like it because it burns cleanly and it measures consistently with my equipment. I have one bullet weight, that is 115gn FMJ. Until I am able to buy other weight bullets, that is it for me.
There are other powders that burn clean and can be used to produce more velocity. At full charge, No. 2 can't deliver a reasonable velocity. It's just the wrong powder.

As you work up toward (but hopefully never reaching) MAX, No. 2 might deliver a load capable of cycling your gun. But if you have a Gen 4, the RSA may still be too strong to allow the slide to cycle even if you get to MAX. You'll just have to check and see.
Quote:
I thank you guys for all the good advice, but at this point I am now quite confused on some important points.
You have been given 3 things to consider:
  1. Get rid of the FCD and buy a taper crimp die
  2. Get another load manual (or two) - Hornady and Speer are popular
  3. Use a different powder
That should keep you busy for a while. Good luck!

Richard
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Old 09-22-2012, 21:59   #60
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
It's NOT a good way to reload. One data source can be actually more diff to work with, especially in the Lee manual. I always recommend as many data points as possible. Avg the data & use avg middle if you like.
On your crimp, if you can see a visible gap between bullet & case neck something isn't right for sure. Again, hate the LFCD, but it can be made to work. The seating die will also crimp, just seating & crimping have to be done in one step.
All of the powders you have will work, some better than others in the Lee measure. The load of 3.8gr of AA#2 is very light, not middle of the data at all for a 115gr bullet. Hornady lists 4.3gr as starting. Bump your charge up & fix the crimp so there is no visible gap between case mouth & bullet. It's no diff than loading for the 40.
I stopped the my local sporting good store and picked up a Hornady reloading manual, 8th edition. That makes three manuals all together. Thanks for the recommendation. Unlike the other manuals I've been using, the Hornady manual starts with much higher FPS powder loads.

After trying two of the recommended loads at the range this weekend, I came away very impressed with the results. First of all, I am not getting feed problems that I experienced with my initial reloads of 9mm. According to the Hornady manual, my loads are in at or around 1000 FPS using 4.3gn of Accurate #2, with a 115gn, FMJ, bullet. With this load, I am getting 4" groups @ 10 yds. This kind of performance is a personal best for me. Never shot that consistently with factory loads.

So, as many of you recommended, it was an increase in powder load that did the trick. I am documenting my loads and performance. Gee, if this keeps up, before long, I'll kind of know what I am doing.

Thanks guys, I'm a happy dude!
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:12   #61
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
I stopped the my local sporting good store and picked up a Hornady reloading manual, 8th edition. That makes three manuals all together. Thanks for the recommendation. Unlike the other manuals I've been using, the Hornady manual starts with much higher FPS powder loads.
I mean no offense to Hornady when I say their manual is about the farthest from reality of anything I've tested...

Just make sure you're looking at the whole picture - seems like they test all pistol loads from a 7-1/2" Blackhawk barrel.

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Old 09-23-2012, 14:11   #62
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GP, as you stated, it is highly recommended that you document each of the components used, COL, date, and chrono results at a minimum. Keep it in a logbook, Excel spreadsheet or something similar. If/when you start production runs, keep a components data slip with the ammo so that you can keep the batches segregated. While some of this may seem like overkill, redundant and unnecessary, it will become a valuable resource for you in the future.
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Old 09-25-2012, 17:48   #63
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I mean no offense to Hornady when I say their manual is about the farthest from reality of anything I've tested...

Just make sure you're looking at the whole picture - seems like they test all pistol loads from a 7-1/2" Blackhawk barrel.

The Hornady manual has been recommended by many on this forum. So, I bought it. I am very happy with the results. I was experiencing misfeeds with my previous loads. The loads based on the Hornady manual run like silk through my Glock 19. So, it's working for me.

But, what do I know, I'm new at all this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 22:45   #64
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
The Hornady manual has been recommended by many on this forum. So, I bought it. I am very happy with the results. I was experiencing misfeeds with my previous loads. The loads based on the Hornady manual run like silk through my Glock 19. So, it's working for me.

But, what do I know, I'm new at all this.
Nothing wrong w/ the Hornady manual but limited data on lead bullets. Most are better than the Lee, really poor reloading manual there IMO. I like the Lyman & SPeer better, but the Hornady is ok.
Good record keeping is a must. It doesn't matter how, spread sheet or binder, but do it. You need to at least note:
powder & how much
bullet & weight
primer brand & type
over all length (OAL or LOA or COAL)
There is lots of other stuff you can note, but that is my min.
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Old 09-26-2012, 16:31   #65
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
The Hornady manual has been recommended by many on this forum. So, I bought it. I am very happy with the results. I was experiencing misfeeds with my previous loads. The loads based on the Hornady manual run like silk through my Glock 19. So, it's working for me.

But, what do I know, I'm new at all this.
From your very first posts and description of your jams I would have guessed OAL might be either too long or two short for the bullet profile you were using. Glad your latest reloads are feeding fine. Out of curiosity are you using the same bullets with the same over all length (OAL) and only changed the powder charge? Or are your successful reloads with a different bullet or OAL?
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:09   #66
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From your very first posts and description of your jams I would have guessed OAL might be either too long or two short for the bullet profile you were using. Glad your latest reloads are feeding fine. Out of curiosity are you using the same bullets with the same over all length (OAL) and only changed the powder charge? Or are your successful reloads with a different bullet or OAL?
Thanks for asking. I did two things.
1.) I upped the powder load to 4.3gn of Accurate #2, per my Hornady manual.
2.) I tightened up the crimp, only a little. Just enough to eliminate the ever so tiny gap between the case neck and the bullet.

The bullets (full metal Jacketed) are from Precision Delta.
The cases are once fired brass from Midway. I've cleaned and checked the case lengths (.745) with a case gauge.

I did not change the OAL of the rounds. The length of the rounds are 1.10 inches. This is based on the Factory 115gn FMJ 9mm rounds (Winchester white box, and Remington) I've been using before I started reloading.

As a side note; this may sound weird, but I really like the attention to detail required for this hobby, and the great questions of all you guys who contribute to this forum. Just thought I'd add that comment.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:53   #67
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Thanks for asking. I did two things.
1.) I upped the powder load to 4.3gn of Accurate #2, per my Hornady manual.
2.) I tightened up the crimp, only a little. Just enough to eliminate the ever so tiny gap between the case neck and the bullet.

The bullets (full metal Jacketed) are from Precision Delta.
The cases are once fired brass from Midway. I've cleaned and checked the case lengths (.745) with a case gauge.

I did not change the OAL of the rounds. The length of the rounds are 1.10 inches. This is based on the Factory 115gn FMJ 9mm rounds (Winchester white box, and Remington) I've been using before I started reloading.

As a side note; this may sound weird, but I really like the attention to detail required for this hobby, and the great questions of all you guys who contribute to this forum. Just thought I'd add that comment.
You have already made a critical mistake. You can not use OAL from a 115gr factory load w/ handload. You could be pushing dangerously higher pressures. OAL is ALWAYS bullet, gun & load data specific. You should be loading to the longest OAL your gun will run, not by measuring a factory round, unless you are using that exact bullet & powder, which you never will.
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Old 09-29-2012, 21:43   #68
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In his case it didn't matter because he was using way to little powder.

Gpruitt54 most new reloaders make the opposite mistake and go for max loads. Had you tried that with your short OAL you would be talking about your blown up gun!
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Old 09-29-2012, 22:56   #69
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You have already made a critical mistake. You can not use OAL from a 115gr factory load w/ handload. You could be pushing dangerously higher pressures. OAL is ALWAYS bullet, gun & load data specific. You should be loading to the longest OAL your gun will run, not by measuring a factory round, unless you are using that exact bullet & powder, which you never will.
So, what should the OAL be? Neither my Lee or Hornady says what specific OAL to set. I am loading 9mm and .40S&W. I was going to load some .40s but I am going to hold off on that until I get and answer about the OAL thing.

I just looked at my Lee Manual and it says that for my 115gn, FMJ, 9mm, with Accurate #2, the minimum OAL should be 1.07", and the max OAL should no more than 1.16. My 9mm rounds are 1.10". I am very confused, my rounds are above the minimum and below the maximum, so what mistake did I make. More importantly, what number should I be shooting (pun intended) for???

If I understand you, I should be setting my OAL to 1.07", the minimum. Is that right? So why do the manuals list a range with a min and max? And, why would I not go for the middle in my OAL?

I am loading for a Glock 19 Gen2 and a Glock 27 Gen3.

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 09-29-2012 at 23:34.. Reason: more details
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:06   #70
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You have already made a critical mistake. You can not use OAL from a 115gr factory load w/ handload. You could be pushing dangerously higher pressures. OAL is ALWAYS bullet, gun & load data specific. You should be loading to the longest OAL your gun will run, not by measuring a factory round, unless you are using that exact bullet & powder, which you never will.
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
So, what should the OAL be? Neither my Lee or Hornady says what specific OAL to set. I am loading 9mm and .40S&W. I was going to load some .40s but I am going to hold off on that until I get and answer about the OAL thing.

I just looked at my Lee Manual and it says that for my 115gn, FMJ, 9mm, with Accurate #2, the minimum OAL should be 1.07", and the max OAL should no more than 1.16. My 9mm rounds are 1.10". I am very confused, my rounds are above the minimum and below the maximum, so what mistake did I make. More importantly, what number should I be shooting (pun intended) for???

If I understand you, I should be setting my OAL to 1.07", the minimum. Is that right? So why do the manuals list a range with a min and max? And, why would I not go for the middle in my OAL?

I am loading for a Glock 19 Gen2 and a Glock 27 Gen3.
GP, reread what Fred posted that I highlighted in red. The industry "max" length is 1.169, and some magazine/pistol combinations will allow for an even longer COL. The minimum is just that, with the published load. You can always go longer as long as the COL will work in your barrel/magazine.

The best guideline is to first disassemble your pistol and use the barrel as a guide. Load your rounds to the longest COL that will pass the drop/plunk test for your barrel. Your round should drop into the chamber without any protrusion outside the rear of the chamber. (You can take a factory round, drop it in and look at how the case head seats into the rear of the chamber.)

Second, test that COL in your pistol's magazine. Load a round into the mag. The bullet should not scrape the inside of the magazine. If your COL passes both tests, you're at a good COL for that pistol/barrel combination.

The reason we always recommend you load to the longest COL is that doing so provides the most available volume inside the case where the pressure is developed during firing. Always remember that for any specific cartridge, less case volume equates to more pressure. Since your components and pistol combination will almost never be the same as the testing apparatus used to develop the published data, it is always best to allow yourself some leeway. Stretching the COL is effectively providing some relief for the pressure.

Once you've become satisfied with the round and are overly familiar with pressure signs, you can work on slowly reducing the COL, should you find a strong reason for doing so.

Personally, all my FMJ and LCN rounds are loaded to 1.14 - 1.15. That COL works in every 9mm that I own.
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:17   #71
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
So, what should the OAL be? Neither my Lee or Hornady says what specific OAL to set. I am loading 9mm and .40S&W. I was going to load some .40s but I am going to hold off on that until I get and answer about the OAL thing.

I just looked at my Lee Manual and it says that for my 115gn, FMJ, 9mm, with Accurate #2, the minimum OAL should be 1.07", and the max OAL should no more than 1.16. My 9mm rounds are 1.10". I am very confused, my rounds are above the minimum and below the maximum, so what mistake did I make. More importantly, what number should I be shooting (pun intended) for???

If I understand you, I should be setting my OAL to 1.07", the minimum. Is that right? So why do the manuals list a range with a min and max? And, why would I not go for the middle in my OAL?

I am loading for a Glock 19 Gen2 and a Glock 27 Gen3.
The Accurate manual, written by the manufacturer of the powder you are using, and the people much more likely to have actually tested the load, says that your load is mid-range.

Quote:
No 2 115 SIE FMJ 3.7 971 4.6 1,088 34,202 1.100
Now, you probably aren't using a Sierra bullet but you aren't anywhere near MAX charge either (IIRC, you are using 4.3 gr) and your OAL is spot on for the Accurate data.

If you extend the OAL, you increase the case volume and probably need to increase the charge slightly just to achieve the same velocity. Remember, your original problem was that you didn't have enough velocity to cycle the gun and again, IIRC, you were using 3.8 gr and 1.120" OAL.

There is the potential issue that longer cartridges don't run up the feed ramp as well and, of course, there is the SAAMI limit of 1.169" and a more practical limit of whether the cartridge will fit in the magazine.

There are a lot of variables in reloading and one way of sorting them out is with a chronograph. You really need to know the muzzle velocity. If it is extraordinarily high, beyond what the load should deliver, your pressure is too high. You need to back off on charge or increase OAL. OTOH, if you get around 1000 fps with the load you are using, you are in the right ballpark.

I tend to go by what is written down in front of me and I have a downloaded copy of the Accurate manual. I would load exactly what you have and not give it a moment's thought.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...d_data_3.5.pdf

Mid-range, I like that!

Richard
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:47   #72
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For a glock an OAL between 1.125 to 1.135 is ideal.
But new reloaders should use what the book for their load says. Only after you have mastered the book load should you consider altering the formula to find the sweet spot for your individual gun.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:10   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
The Accurate manual, written by the manufacturer of the powder you are using, and the people much more likely to have actually tested the load, says that your load is mid-range.



Now, you probably aren't using a Sierra bullet but you aren't anywhere near MAX charge either (IIRC, you are using 4.3 gr) and your OAL is spot on for the Accurate data.

If you extend the OAL, you increase the case volume and probably need to increase the charge slightly just to achieve the same velocity. Remember, your original problem was that you didn't have enough velocity to cycle the gun and again, IIRC, you were using 3.8 gr and 1.120" OAL.

There is the potential issue that longer cartridges don't run up the feed ramp as well and, of course, there is the SAAMI limit of 1.169" and a more practical limit of whether the cartridge will fit in the magazine.

There are a lot of variables in reloading and one way of sorting them out is with a chronograph. You really need to know the muzzle velocity. If it is extraordinarily high, beyond what the load should deliver, your pressure is too high. You need to back off on charge or increase OAL. OTOH, if you get around 1000 fps with the load you are using, you are in the right ballpark.

I tend to go by what is written down in front of me and I have a downloaded copy of the Accurate manual. I would load exactly what you have and not give it a moment's thought.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...d_data_3.5.pdf

Mid-range, I like that!

Richard
I am not at all interested in going for max loads. I like mid range loads. My mid-range loads perform very well. That is why I selected the load details I am using. My fired cases are not showing signs like bulges. I am using Precision Delta 9mm, 115gn, FMJ, NOT plated, bullets.

The 9mm data I am targeting is from the load table you included in the link. I don't have a chrono, so I am not sure how to ever be able to judge FPS.

The data says my loads are good. Thanks!
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:22   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
In his case it didn't matter because he was using way to little powder.

Gpruitt54 most new reloaders make the opposite mistake and go for max loads. Had you tried that with your short OAL you would be talking about your blown up gun!
Actually, I don't understand the tendancy to go for max. To each his own. I am going for precision, and acheving smaller and smaller groupings. If I wanted a big ass punch, I get a 12 guage pump, or a baseball bat.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:43   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Actually, I don't understand the tendancy to go for max. To each his own. I am going for precision, and acheving smaller and smaller groupings. If I wanted a big ass punch, I get a 12 guage pump, or a baseball bat.
Some folks will load fire breathing pistol ammo for hunting with 10mm, .357 Mag and .44 Mag. Personally, I'm in to mid-range target loads in .45 ACP. Something that is pleasant to shoot.

Richard
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