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Old 09-22-2012, 00:32   #1261
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In 2008-2010 I was a civilian contractor in Iraq making GOOD $ and made several rather large silver purchases at under $15 a troy oz (in late 2008 silver dropped to $9-$11 ). I'm pretty happy with where I'm sitting.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:01   #1262
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In short they aren't.

Depending on what you think might happen companies like Apple, Google etc are in a pretty bad position since their revenue streams are based off techonological based products.

Bill Gates knows this. I remember reading an article several years ago about his personal financial consultant whose job it is every day to sell something like 50,000 shares of Gates's stock...I don't quite remember the number.

As of August, 2009 he owned 725 million shares so sheading 1.8 million shares a year sounds about right.

Google, Apple, MSFT can't run a successful business model thinking the economy is going to crash - simply because if it does, I think people might be more focused on food than downloading songs to their iphone. I know SOME people see this as a necessity....
Bill Gates sells the maximum amount of shares of Microsoft he can sell every quarter. It's called diversification.
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:16   #1263
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I don't know that there is a max number of shares Gates can sell every quarter. He's sold off 22% of his Microsoft stock in the last two years.

AFAIK, he could sell off his entire stake all at once if he wanted to (of course the share price would crash).

Last edited by cowboy1964; 09-29-2012 at 19:17..
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:17   #1264
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Originally Posted by BonoVox View Post
Bill Gates sells the maximum amount of shares of Microsoft he can sell every quarter. It's called diversification.
Cascade Investment LLC is the secretive private holding company of the software executive. Almost every day the stock exchange has been open for 20+ years, Bill Gates has sold off as much Microsoft stock as he can without lowering its price, paid the taxes, and transferred the proceeds to this holding company. The well respected and successful value investor, Michael Larson, manages it on a full-time basis from the Kirkland, Washington headquarters.

Bill Gates does diversify - but his stock sale reasons far exceed the average investor's ideas about diversification.

My point is Gates probably worries about the dollar just like everyone else and companies like Microsoft are in a poor position if something were to happen.

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AFAIK, he could sell off his entire stake all at once if he wanted to (of course the share price would crash).
Would it really crash though? I didn't bother to find out the % of the stock he owns; in reality it might not only not tank, but he might get a premium on it? Just like a hostile takeover, companies pay a premium just to get a controlling or large share of the company.

Again, as it relates to the dollar, Gates has access to any financial planner/investment firm in the country. While I've read he owns shares of Walmart, McDonalds and even a few rail companies to think he doesn't own some bullion seems rash.
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Last edited by pugman; 09-29-2012 at 19:22..
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:44   #1265
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Would it really crash though? I didn't bother to find out the % of the stock he owns; in reality it might not only not tank, but he might get a premium on it? Just like a hostile takeover, companies pay a premium just to get a controlling or large share of the company.
This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
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Old 09-29-2012, 22:00   #1266
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This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
Warp - that's what the "hostile" means in "hostile takeover". They're buying a company that isn't for sale....or is for sale but not at the price being tendered. They buy what they can. BOD recommends shareholders not accept. Offer goes up. Rinse and repeat.

Along the way they often acquire enough shares to replace the BOD and move the transaction in their favor...(BOD recommends shareholders accept the offer). 51% isn't required to have a controlling interest in these situations. It depends how many shares other interests hold as one voting block. A relatively small percentage, maybe 5 or 10% held by one interest can wield enormous influence. Once you get enough to start replacing board members, you have effectively taken over a company. From that point, you might choose to acquire it outright, or not.
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Old 09-29-2012, 22:49   #1267
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Warp - that's what the "hostile" means in "hostile takeover". They're buying a company that isn't for sale....or is for sale but not at the price being tendered. They buy what they can. BOD recommends shareholders not accept. Offer goes up. Rinse and repeat.

Along the way they often acquire enough shares to replace the BOD and move the transaction in their favor...(BOD recommends shareholders accept the offer). 51% isn't required to have a controlling interest in these situations. It depends how many shares other interests hold as one voting block. A relatively small percentage, maybe 5 or 10% held by one interest can wield enormous influence. Once you get enough to start replacing board members, you have effectively taken over a company. From that point, you might choose to acquire it outright, or not.
There is, of course, potentially a lot more than that to it, even.

It can get complicated very quickly.

How easily is 5% interest going to start replacing board members though? I mean...really?
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Last edited by Warp; 09-29-2012 at 22:49..
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:37   #1268
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Why is silver rising? The dollar is losing value so commodities like silver rise by comparison. Blame Bernanke and the Federal Reserve:
http://bloom.bg/S8gjcL
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Old 09-30-2012, 16:46   #1269
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This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
It was just an analogy to just voice my point companies do pay premiums over market stock prices. Gates doesn't own a controlling interest. However, if there was a company who starting buying up stock AND WITH GATES portion could get a controlling interest - they might pay a premium.

However, again my points are simple 1) Gates worries about the dollar just like everyone else 2) If the dollar were to collaspe tomorrow MSFT doesn't own tangible property like land, gold, timber, etc. I'm not sure how extensivly their OPs control systems in say water plants, etc. They would be in more trouble than a company which produces something tangible. 3) Hopefully, Gates gets the type of advice he can afford and someone somewhere is telling him maybe a million shares worth of those stock sales invested in a few thousand acres in [insert your state of choice] or in regular silver/gold purchases over the past ten years isn't such a bad idea.

Point in fact: MSFT over the past ten years has returned an annual percentage of under 3%.

Gold or silver....well, we know where that stands. Hell, even ammo would have been a better investment than MSFT.

I sold my remaining .45 18 months or so ago at about a 230% profit
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Old 11-27-2012, 13:56   #1270
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Ferfal's experience in Argentina was that silver/gold appreciated SLIGHTLY better than the inflation rate.

His example (working from memory here) was that if X amount of silver could buy 1 loaf of bread before the collapse, then afterwards it was buying 1.25-1.5 loaves of bread.

No one got rich holding PMs, but they either maintained, or increased their buying power by a bit. But there was no buying a mansion for 2 ounces of silver, and staffing it with a harem of slave girls. . .
Argentina did not have the world's reserve currency. When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements, and the only way that would work is for gold to get repriced at about $50,000 per ounce or so and then float, rather than stay at a fixed exchange rate per currency unit. So, gold holders are looking at a huge one time revaluation. For most, this is hard to put their head around. They suffer from normalcy bias and can't envision a paradigm shift of this magnitude.

So, there is still hope for a harem of slave girls...if you own enough gold now.
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:09   #1271
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Argentina did not have the world's reserve currency. When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements, and the only way that would work is for gold to get repriced at about $50,000 per ounce or so and then float, rather than stay at a fixed exchange rate per currency unit. So, gold holders are looking at a huge one time revaluation. For most, this is hard to put their head around. They suffer from normalcy bias and can't envision a paradigm shift of this magnitude.

So, there is still hope for a harem of slave girls...if you own enough gold now.
Won't happen.
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:14   #1272
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...
When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements
...
What makes you think another fiat currency won't replace the dollar, much like the dollar replaced the pound sterling?
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:37   #1273
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What makes you think another fiat currency won't replace the dollar, much like the dollar replaced the pound sterling?
All currencies are fiat. Unless we're going to be only using gold and silver as money, we will have a fiat currency.
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:39   #1274
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For gold to go to $50,000 ounce, everything else would have to go up as well. You'd be looking at $100 per gallon gas, etc. In other words, the dollar's value has collapsed.

If you think you're suddenly going to be able to buy a (in today's money) $1 million mansion for 20 ounces of gold, you're way off base.

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Old 11-27-2012, 15:43   #1275
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For gold to go to $50,000 ounce, everything else would have to go up as well. You'd be looking at $100 per gallon gas, etc. In other words, the dollar's value has collapsed.

If you think you're suddenly going to be able to buy a (in today's money) $1 million mansion for 20 ounces of gold, you're way off base.
You sir win the prize!

Gold won't change in it's value... everything else will.

We will of course end up with another paper currency to replace the dollar, or maybe just keep the dollar around and add extra zeros on some new bills. It's been done.

As to it happening it's when not if unless someone can explain how we can print half of what the government spends for the forseeable future and NOT have our currency effected.

Right now it's becoming a main stream media topic. How long do you think that it will take before people get smart or scared in our country or others? I think that as soon as people acknowledge the idea it will accelerate very rapidly.
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Old 12-01-2012, 21:57   #1276
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November Gold Eagle sales skyrocketed.

Survival/Preparedness Forum

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Old 12-02-2012, 06:37   #1277
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November Gold Eagle sales skyrocketed.

Survival/Preparedness Forum
Fiat paper currency is based on faith...........looks like that faith is slipping. Benji may lose some sleep.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:32   #1278
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Fiat paper currency is based on faith...........looks like that faith is slipping. Benji may lose some sleep.
It's based on more than faith.

If you want to pay your taxes, you are going to need our fiat paper currency to do it. That is one method through which the government has created a need for it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 14:55   #1279
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Fiat paper currency is based on faith...........looks like that faith is slipping. Benji may lose some sleep.
The faith is slipping for sure, but that's probably because of our manufacturing of goods, services and raw materials topped off with high taxes and regulation.

As Steve Jobs told Obama in answer to when are the jobs coming back from China... "They're not!"
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Old 12-02-2012, 15:01   #1280
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Politicians and the bankers that run them are not going to allow us to have a backed currency unless it is forced on them. Even then, they understand that few get the logic behind backed or competition of currencies and once any rough patch has passed, the next generation will forget any lessons learned by their parents.

As long as we have a statist society where the government has it's hand in everything, we're not going to be allowed to use real money because they can't steal and transfer wealth as easily with real money. I'd bet that the push once the dollar is ready to collapse will be for a global currency and even though we've all see the problems resulting from the Euro, the masses will accept anything other than responsibility for themselves.

Personally, I don't care much for gold because I foresee issues with selling physical gold unless you're holding 1/10 oz bars or something. With everything being tracked, if the government gets involved at the point of sale any value stored could be wiped out. Returning to a Constitutional option of physical gold and silver and allowing competition between alternate currencies would be best but we can't get the Republicans to stop their social conservatisim long enough to have any chance at winning elections.
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