[Tim808]

What carbine do your wife/kids use?

I'm leaning towards a 223 or 5.45 carbine because of the slightly lighter recoil compared to 7.62x39.

Would a Saiga 223 with a MSA AR mag adapter be a good bang for the buck carbine?

Reliable platform - I'm thinking the weakest points, will be the mags (AK mags are much beefier), the magwell (made from aluminum) and the ammo (7.62 & 5.45 are more "angled" and should fed more reliably)
Readily available ammo to start stacking.
Readily available mags to start collecting.

Because I'm lazy, I don't really care for the gas impingement AR15s. They take longer to clean than an AK IMO. If money were no issue I'd probably get a piston AR15.

I like 5.45 too but 5.45 doesn't go on sale as much as 223 around here and we can't mail order ammo here.

I'm thinking we'll eventually end up with 7.62x39 carbines when the kids get older (ie leave home)

I want to thank the people that produce the show "Revolution". I've been trying to get my wife to the range for 5 years. After watching 2 episodes of that show, she finally agreed to go to the range if I take her out to a nice dinner.

[TangoFoxtrot]

Just my standard M4 5.56mm. I would stick to the standard AR platform..Just my 2 cents.

[SFCSMITH(RET)]

She has an M4gery. Loves it. She has 8 or so different carbines to use, but the one she likes best is that one.

I do not believe there is more cleaning to an AR platform vs AK. You just have to clean in different spots. For most shooters the whole impingement "problem" is just noise. I am also not a fan of anything that needs an adapter to feed or function.

[quake]

One of my sons is an AR guy - his personal gun is an old style CAR-15 in A1 format. Almost identical to mine; including a 1-4X leupold compact scope. My other son prefers the AK; his has a scout-mounted red dot on it. Either is fine imo. AR's are higher maintenance, but not unbearably so imo.

My wife's not a gun person. She's shot quite a number of my guns, but she's more Ma Walton than Annie Oakley. Not an insult, because like Ma Walton, she's very protective of her family and would certainly shoot folks if they need it; of that I have no doubt. For her, I keep a couple options; the M1 carbines or 9mm carbine. They both have lower recoil and lower blast than the AR or AK platforms, but are still (imo, anyway) respectably capable. The M1 carbine equals a .44 magnum revolver for power, while being so tame that they can be (and mine have been) fired by a six-year-old girl. The 9mm carbine has even less blast & recoil, and while it gets poo-poo'ed by a lot of people, with even generic loads it about duplicates a .357 revolver power-wise. With high-end loadings (1825 fps for ~740 ft/lbs of energy with Corbons), it falls between the .357 and .44 magnums; and that's not bad for defensive use imo.

All that said, the short answer is that if we were loading up because the MZB's were on the way, it'd be one of the M1 carbines for her. Not sure how good a choice it would be for folks nowadays since the guns themsselves tend to be more expensive now than they used to be.

If starting new, I'd definitely look at the options you're already considering except I'd lean away from adapters as sfcsmith says. But if you (or she) already have an appropriage handgun, I'd also look pretty hard at a pistol-caliber carbine with the thought of potentially matching ammo and even magazines.

[kirgi08]

Ar.'08.

[DoctaGlockta]

AMD-65 with a stock cheek bar adapter and recoil buffer from AMD-65 Tech.

[F350]

Well let's just say I use to have 2 M-1 carbines until the wife informed me one of them was hers, the Winchester; go figure

[GlocknSpiehl]

My wife loves my iron sights M1 carbine, but is equally happy with the SKS and its telescopic sight. Obviously the M1 is great for snapping off rounds quickly and at up to 100 yards; the SKS is good for out to 200 or so yards.

[quake]

Nice to hear some .30 carbine love echoing out there. They're not the "in" thing nowadays and I usually feel like a social leper when I bring them up. One of the most under-appreciated guns of the 20th century imo.

(Shame they're retarded expensive nowadays...)

[DoctaGlockta]

I have thought an AR-15 pistol might be a good solution as well for a smaller/lighter person.

The recoil in them is very minimal and a smaller person could shoulder the recoil tube if needed.

I'll have my wife fire the modded amd-65 and the pistol to see what she prefers.

[FLA45fan]

Originally Posted by DoctaGlockta

I have thought an AR-15 pistol might be a good solution as well for a smaller/lighter person.

I'll have my wife fire the modded amd-65 and the pistol to see what she prefers.

Loudest thing you'll ever fire - not to mention the foot and a half fireball out the front will scare the dickens outta anybody within 20 feet. (Got one - an older Carbon 15 that I've had for 7 or 8 years. Bring it out every now and then to put those .44 Mag and .500 S&W guys in their place - BOOM!)

[FLA45fan]

In answer to the original question, M1 carbine or a Ruger PC9 carbine. Both are light recoiling and light to hold.

[AK_Stick]

Current gf has earmarked my 11.5 inch 6.8 as "hers"


But she's a 5'10 former IDF chick, so I'd guess she might know a thing or two about what she wants.

[copo9560]

Ruger Mini-14 is very similar in feel to M1 Carbine and shoot a far better round. The older ones are lighter if this is a concern. As for recoil, 7.62x39 does not push a lot harder than 5.56 - most can manage either easily. All are reliable.

If you plan on adding a scope or other optics, the Mini 14 or flat top AR might be a better choice.

[LongGun1]

Besides personal HWS sighted custom 10/22s for both...

Wife has her personal AKM (7.62x39mm) with Dot Optic...

..youngest daughter has her 13th birthday present..

..a custom Saiga (also in 7.62x39mm) with Dot Optic.


Future plans are for both also to have dedicated, suppressed, night optimized, long stroke gas piston ARs very similar to my current Project #1..

..details here...

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...391148&page=29

[Tim808]

Copo - Good point. I hadn't thought about optics/scopes. I was just thinking about adding a light.

Hmmm. I must be lazier than I thought. I could have sworn it took me 4-5 times longer to clean the AR. To be fair, I only used it once. After the first cleaning, I sold it. Still remember those lug "thingies" and that filthy BCG and thinking "Damn!".

[quake]

Originally Posted by copo9560

Ruger Mini-14 is very similar in feel to M1 Carbine and shoot a far better round. The older ones are lighter if this is a concern. As for recoil, 7.62x39 does not push a lot harder than 5.56 - most can manage either easily. All are reliable.

If you plan on adding a scope or other optics, the Mini 14 or flat top AR might be a better choice.

+1 - Definitely a fan of optics, regardless of which weapon platform it's on. I particularly like forward-mounted, low- (or zero- ) magnification ones. I bought one of my sons a gas-tube scout mount & red-dot for his AK last year, and it works very well. I wasn't initially sure how well it would return to zero after disassembly & cleaning, but it does ok.

[mac66]

The Saiga is a good choice, even in 7.62x39 it doesn't kick much though it is heavy. I also like the Mini 14. Good solid carbine. Handles well. All in all my go to guns are basic Ar15 carbines.

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by Tim808

Copo - Good point. I hadn't thought about optics/scopes. I was just thinking about adding a light.

Fast optics ("red dots") have been the #1 item that I have personally witnessed many, many times..

(since the 1980s...when 1st I installed an L.E.R mounted Tasco PDP1 red dot optic on an Polytech AKM underfolder)

..to allow a new shooter (some who have never touched a firearm in their life) as well as experienced shooters to be much more "effective". Especially if under stress.

Also there is carryover into low light/ night, poor weather conditions that allow the experienced as well as inexperienced to be much more (again) effective!

If SHTF....more effective can mean "not dead or wounded"!

Originally Posted by Tim808

Hmmm. I must be lazier than I thought. I could have sworn it took me 4-5 times longer to clean the AR. To be fair, I only used it once. After the first cleaning, I sold it. Still remember those lug "thingies" and that filthy BCG and thinking "Damn!".

Yes....& in my decades of experience with both....

(select fire & semi-auto with both platforms)

..maintenance on an AR is much more time intensive than maintaining an Polytech or Norinco AKM..

..especially when considering I have pushed both hard & often to find weaknesses that cause failures...


One major weakness I have personally experienced with (Direct Impingement) ARs...

..they need regular cleaning to run or run their best.


On the other hand....my (long stroke gas piston) Chi-Com AKM..

..do not seem to 'care' if they are maintained regularly.


Where as ARs love (& even require) to be run "wet"..

..the #1 failure I personally know of with AKM is when customers attempted to run them wet in the wrong places..

(by the customers deciding the the gas piston needed oiling...which the volatiles in the lubrication "cooked off" during a range session...then required a hammer to open the bolt carrier later when it cooled due to the gas piston being "glued" to the gas tube assembly )



All that being said.....there have been improvements over time with the AR platform since being 1st employed in combat in Southeast Asia. Some types of ammo simply run "dirty" also..

Some of the more modern improvements with ARs I personally like are "lubeless" treatments like EXO http://www.failzero.com/exo-technology.html

..and Isonite QPQ http://www.trutecind.com/isonite_q.aspx

..and NP3 http://www.robarguns.com/np3.htm

Little to no (time consuming) carbon buildup to scrape out..

..some will run with little or no lubrication...

POF, LWRC, PWS & others employ friction reducing treatments in their ARs


Another is the "piston" AR platform ...

..as with the long stroke gas piston PWS ARs http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/v....asp?idpage=17

A short video on what sets them apart from the "run-of-the-mill" AR...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEATs...ature=youtu.be


Read this torture test....(that helped 'sell me' on my latest AR)

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=2202139

[SDDL-UP]

AK with a red dot!

I have several different platforms, but the AK is legendary for good reason. Add a red dot as LG1 states and they are just plain tough to beat.

I personally can't stand the factory AK grips, but there are many good options available and that right there will change the whole feel of the weapon. If even a Pro-Mag works 100% in an AK - there has to be something to the whole "reliability" thing!

[Cochese]

My wife has a Colt 6721 that she has owned and carried in uniform since before I was a gun guy or cop.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[Tim808]

Hmmmm.....red dot? Best bang for buck method to mount the red dot?

Saiga has a $40 picatinny rail that runs above the dust cove (remove rear sight, stick front of rail there and use the screw for the stock to secure the rear of the rail). I think this is the best bang for the buck since the rail is cheaper than the ultimak and less heat tolerant red dots (lower priced) can be used.

(If battery goes down, I guess you have to sight down the side of the rifle like the kids that play paintball and hope your targets aren't too far away....or pray/spray)

For the light just screw/bolt a rail to the forearm......I believe under the forearm instead of to the side.

[LongGun1]

Originally Posted by Tim808

Hmmmm.....red dot? Best bang for buck method to mount the red dot?

If on a Saiga or other AK/AKM with the side mount...

..consider something like this...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...age&groupid=84

I have several SPARCs.....they have performed well so far!

[Tim808]

LG1 - Thanks for the info! That is nice......I'll tell my buddy to get one while I save up for one.

[Faulkner]

I've owned a .30 carbine or two through the years and think they make a fine choice for smaller statured people, but my wife has gotten kind of partial to my PC-4 and I like it because of the shared ammo with my Glocks.