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Old 09-18-2012, 23:51   #26
Angry Fist
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You'd be surprised what a Saiga can to to clays.
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Old 09-19-2012, 00:12   #27
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Hard to beat a Benelli as an all around shotgun. HD, hunting, trap/skeet etc. I have an M1 90 in 12 ga with 24" barrel.
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Old 09-19-2012, 00:21   #28
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Hard to beat a Benelli as an all around shotgun. HD, hunting, trap/skeet etc. I have an M1 90 in 12 ga with 24" barrel.
Wow beautiful gun.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:52   #29
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So you recommend a semi-auto shotgun for shooting skeet?
I have shot a Remington 1100 and a S&W Super Skeet and both worked well. I see a lot of people using sporting clays guns like the Benellis or Berettas but those are out of my price range. They work very well but they throw the hulls all over the place.

I know the gas guns are pretty fast but there is still a noticeable pause while the action cycles.

I prefer to shoot skeet with an O/U and even then, I wish they didn't have ejectors. Having just extractors would be adequate.

I have a Browning sporting clays gun (O/U) that shoots pretty well but I really don't like the gun. I have had several incantations of Brownings over the years and every one of them gave me a headache. So, I don't shoot 12 gauge any more...


I have a fairly old Remington 3200 (O/U) with 28 gauge tubes that I use these days. The gun is very heavy so follow-through isn't much of a problem. I really like shooting 28 gauge skeet!

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:53   #30
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Thanks, I understand not all barrels have threads for a screw in choke. My plan is to get a longer barrel that can use screw in chokes. Are all barrels compatible with each shotgun? Or do I have to get a barrel that specifically made (in my situation) for a remington 870 police. Also are there any other shotguns like the 870? I don't really like the mossberg 500. I plan on putting a pistol grip on it also.
Most 870 barrels will be interchangeable. There is one type of Remington barrel, the special field (I think that is what it was called) that is not interchangeable. Other than that, an Express barrel will fit on a Wingmaster or a Police, and vice versa. Remington and Mossberg are the two main choices in a pump gun, especially for HD. Benelli also has the Nova line, and Ithaca is another choice. I'm not real familar with the last two, as I don't have either one. I have 870s and my sons jr. model Mossberg 500.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:43   #31
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For skeet an O/U or semiauto is best. For trap it does not matter as a pump is more than fine. Something like a Remington Model 1100 will work just buy a short barrel for HD. One of my shotguns is a Rem 1100 Trap model which has the long ported vent rib barrel.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:00   #32
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One of the problems with using for pumps and semiautos for trap is that they spit the hull over toward the next shooter. This is impolite! Right at the time they are getting ready to shoot, along comes a flying hull.

OK, there is a way to control that with the pump gun and there is a little metal shell retainer for the 1100s. Either will work great until you get to shooting doubles. You still wind up sending hulls over to your neighbor.

Sporting clays is one place where semiautos can be used without disturbing the next shooter and many of the best shooters are using them. But since sporting clays is all doubles, I don't think a pump gun would be the best choice.

I think if I had to do HD and skeet with one gun, I would get an 1100 with two barrels. If I was trying to do it with the 870, I would be an upgraded version suitable for skeet and then install a downgraded barrel. I don't recall ever dealing with an extended shell tube on an 1100 - I might give that a pass. I don't see any advantage in showing up at a skeet field with a tactical shotgun finish.

Our range won't allow the use of tactical shotguns.

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Old 09-19-2012, 14:56   #33
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Yeah I have one of those little clip on catchers for my 1100. If all he wanted to shoot was trap and HD I would say hands down go with a pump. For skeet I would prefer an O/U vs a semi no doubt but for what he wants to do the semi seems to be the best fit because an O/U obviously only holds 2 rounds. For HD I want more than two rounds.

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Old 09-19-2012, 15:42   #34
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I know I am in the minority around here but even though I own (2) 870 tactical shotguns and a Benelli M4, I just don't see the utility of a shotgun for defense inside the house.

In my view, clearing a house with a shotgun is an advanced topic and better done as a member of a team. I would much prefer to use a handgun. I can protect and retain the weapon much easier. In addition, it is faster to aquire a target and the cycle rate easily outruns an 870. And some handguns carry a lot of ammo.

Now, I can see using a shotgun to protect the external property but, in California, that is a debatable issue. It might not be legal. You can not use deadly force to protect property around here. If there was a firefight, I would rather have an AR-15.

I do give points to the shotgun for stopping power. There is no comparison between a 00-buck load and .45 ACP. The buckshot wins every time!

So, while it is tacti-cool to have the extended magazine and all the rail mounted stuff, and I have every bit of it, I tend to use my shotguns for target practice and may eventually use them for 3-gun matches. Sure, they're loaded. But I'm not sure they would be anywhere near my first choice. It would have to be one heck of a home invasion to cause me to grab a shotgun versus one or more handguns.

Maybe 'lie in wait' and shoot them when they come through the bedroom door is a good scenario for a shotgun. But if the BGs are in the livingroom and I'm in the bedroom, a shotgun won't be my first choice should I decide to start something.

But that's just me! Other scenarios are possible and there may be some where the shotgun would be the preferred choice. Maybe I just haven't thought about it enough...

Or maybe I'm overthinking it...

Richard
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Old 09-19-2012, 16:44   #35
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A handgun is used to fight your way to a long gun....

I agree that clearing the house is not something I would typically want to undertake by myself, but that is not my HD plan. My son's bedroom is across from ours. I would take up a position in my doorway, looking down the hall. If they want to take the tv in the living room, fine...it is insured. Step into my hallway though and there will be 9 pellets heading your way. Of course, the shotgun is only one layer of defense. Outdoor lighting, strong locks, alarm, and the 100lb dog have to be defeated first.

ETA: Nothing tactical about my shotgun...Remington 870 Wingmaster, with the barrel cut down to 18.5". Wood furniture, no rails, no BS.

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Old 09-19-2012, 18:01   #36
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Mossberg sells their 930 semi auto in a combo with a 18.5" hd barrel and a 28" vent rib barrel.

Perfect for the op needs.

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Old 09-19-2012, 18:15   #37
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Mossberg sells their 930 semi auto in a combo with a 18.5" hd barrel and a 28" vent rib barrel.
That would be a sweet setup!

Apparently the combo is available for a little over $500:
http://grabagun.com/msbrg-930-12-28-...o-mbl-syn.html

Yes, I know it is out of stock but that was the first place that showed a price.

I think availability might be an issue.

EDIT: There are variations on the theme. Be certain to get the one with the vent rib barrel for skeet.

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Old 09-20-2012, 10:49   #38
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That would be a sweet setup!

Apparently the combo is available for a little over $500:
http://grabagun.com/msbrg-930-12-28-...o-mbl-syn.html

Yes, I know it is out of stock but that was the first place that showed a price.

I think availability might be an issue.

EDIT: There are variations on the theme. Be certain to get the one with the vent rib barrel for skeet.

Richard
85325 is the model number. Not in stock at buds or able either.

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Old 09-20-2012, 12:19   #39
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Thats like trying to find a cross between an apple and an orange. a short barreled HD shotgun is going to suck on the range even if you have interchangeable chokes. A skeet/trap shotgun is going to have at least a 24" barrel and harder to maneuver indoors.

This could not be further from the truth.

18.5 inch barrel shoots just fine with skeet. It's the indian. not the arrow (or bow in this case)
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:40   #40
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This could not be further from the truth.

18.5 inch barrel shoots just fine with skeet. It's the indian. not the arrow (or bow in this case)
I disagree. Sure, you can shoot skeet with a HD shotgun, but that does not mean it is optimal. The longer barrel assists with swing and follow through. I've played with my HD shotgun on a skeet course, and my score greatly improved when I went back to the O/U.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:48   #41
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At our range you can NOT shoot skeet with an 18.5" barrel. It just isn't allowed. Nor can you shoot on the range with a pistol grip stock.

Real trap and skeet shooters don't want to be disturbed by the sight and noise of tactical shotguns on the range and since they run the range, they make the rules!

Richard
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Old 09-20-2012, 21:30   #42
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I bought a new mossberg 500 for about $250 with a 28" barrel and then ordered a 18" cylinder bore barrel for the house for about 80$. One hand screw to change them takes 30 secondss
This is more than likely the answer you seek
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:36   #43
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I disagree. Sure, you can shoot skeet with a HD shotgun, but that does not mean it is optimal. The longer barrel assists with swing and follow through. I've played with my HD shotgun on a skeet course, and my score greatly improved when I went back to the O/U.
It may not be optimal, but your skill should allow you to pull out by a wide margin.

The O/U gives you two shots, with no pumping. You may have experienced this disadvantage from the action itself when shooting more than once per round. That takes practice.

I have 28 inch barrels and 18 inch barrels for my mossbergs, I notice little advantage with the 28 inch barrel. It's blown out of proportion by too many people, including yourself - In my opinion.

Again, if you're having trouble with your "swing" to hold on the clays, you should probably bring out the shotguns a little bit more and practice with them, then.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:57   #44
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I have 28 inch barrels and 18 inch barrels for my mossbergs, I notice little advantage with the 28 inch barrel. It's blown out of proportion by too many people, including yourself - In my opinion.

Again, if you're having trouble with your "swing" to hold on the clays, you should probably bring out the shotguns a little bit more and practice with them, then.
Your opinion does not match those of professional shotgunners the world over. The length of the barrel (longer typically being heavier) affects follow through. Many (probably most) shooters tend to stop moving the gun once the trigger is pulled, thus shooting behind a moving target. A longer, heavier barrel, has more momentum and does not stop as easily, and tends to keep moving.

Why do you think those hunting / SD combos come with two barrels? It is because the longer barrel is easier to track a moving target with. Otherwise, all barrels should be about 22", where your shot is no longer gaining velocity, since you think there is no advantage to a longer barrel.

Last edited by cyphertext; 10-04-2012 at 10:19.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:00   #45
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Your opinion does not match those of professional shotgunners the world over. The length of the barrel (longer typically being heavier) affects follow through. Many (probably most) shooters tend to stop moving the gun once the trigger is pulled, thus shooting behind a moving target. A longer, heavier barrel, has more momentum and does not stop as easily, and tends to keep moving.

Why do you think those hunting / SD combos come with two barrels? It is because the longer barrel is easier to track a moving target with. Otherwise, all barrels should be about 22", where your shot is no longer gaining velocity, since you think there is no advantage to a longer barrel.

Dude, you're talking PROFESSIONAL shotgunners. This guy is NOT a professional. When you compete professionally, you want any advantage you can get. You're sounding like one of those who say a muzzle break on your AR-15 is a must or you won't be able to shoot fast with it.

Skill > Equipment, until you get to a professional level. Until then, he should worry about practicing. An 18 inch barrel is NOT going to mess his "swing" up.

It's funny how you're making it sound like it's hard to "track a moving target" with an 18 inch barrel. I've outshot plenty of people with an 18 inch barrel when doing skeet/trap. You're blowing this out of proportion.
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:23   #46
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Dude, you're talking PROFESSIONAL shotgunners. This guy is NOT a professional. When you compete professionally, you want any advantage you can get. You're sounding like one of those who say a muzzle break on your AR-15 is a must or you won't be able to shoot fast with it.

Skill > Equipment, until you get to a professional level. Until then, he should worry about practicing. An 18 inch barrel is NOT going to mess his "swing" up.

It's funny how you're making it sound like it's hard to "track a moving target" with an 18 inch barrel. I've outshot plenty of people with an 18 inch barrel when doing skeet/trap. You're blowing this out of proportion.
You don't even have to look at pro shooters...just look at the responses in this thread. You are the only one in the thread advocating shooting clays with an 18" barrel. I guarantee you if you take a beginner and have him shoot a round with the short barrel and then a round with the longer barrel, he will do better with the longer barrel. If the OP wants to play competitively, he will need a longer barrel. If he wants to shoot at hand thrown clays in the back 40 while enjoying a Miller Lite, then have at it with the 18".

You can drive a T Post with a hammer, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be easier with a post driver...
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Old 10-04-2012, 18:00   #47
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You don't even have to look at pro shooters...just look at the responses in this thread. You are the only one in the thread advocating shooting clays with an 18" barrel. I guarantee you if you take a beginner and have him shoot a round with the short barrel and then a round with the longer barrel, he will do better with the longer barrel. If the OP wants to play competitively, he will need a longer barrel. If he wants to shoot at hand thrown clays in the back 40 while enjoying a Miller Lite, then have at it with the 18".

You can drive a T Post with a hammer, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be easier with a post driver...
The responses on this thread are from people who aspire to be professionals. I won't speculate if I can or cannot outshoot them in a round of skeet, but to go by "popular opinion", on the internet nonetheless is just silly.

Again, if he competes professionally, where more is on the line than just his "rep" then absolutely, take any advantage you can get. I gaurantee you 99% on this board are not on that level. The difference when it comes to skill levels lower is negligible.

If I were competing for cash, I wouldn't even use a pump to begin with. Pump will leave you at a far greater disadvantage than a short barrel will. Give me an O/U or semi auto shotgun with a longer barrel if I want every little advantage I can get.

Again, if money isn't on the line, and you're just shooting against buddies, outshooting them with an 18 inch pump gun, while they're all using gamer 32 inch shotguns is priceless. When I do lose, usually not by much, I can still say "well guys, what did you expect? Look at my cheap 250$ 18 inch mossberg!"

You're taking this way too seriously man. It's a GAME, a game that the OP is not competing with for money, or anything of any significant value. WHO CARES? That's why we go back to what I was originally saying - SKILL > equipment (regarding barrel lengths).
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:50   #48
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The responses on this thread are from people who aspire to be professionals. I won't speculate if I can or cannot outshoot them in a round of skeet, but to go by "popular opinion", on the internet nonetheless is just silly.

Again, if he competes professionally, where more is on the line than just his "rep" then absolutely, take any advantage you can get. I gaurantee you 99% on this board are not on that level. The difference when it comes to skill levels lower is negligible.

If I were competing for cash, I wouldn't even use a pump to begin with. Pump will leave you at a far greater disadvantage than a short barrel will. Give me an O/U or semi auto shotgun with a longer barrel if I want every little advantage I can get.

Again, if money isn't on the line, and you're just shooting against buddies, outshooting them with an 18 inch pump gun, while they're all using gamer 32 inch shotguns is priceless. When I do lose, usually not by much, I can still say "well guys, what did you expect? Look at my cheap 250$ 18 inch mossberg!"

You're taking this way too seriously man. It's a GAME, a game that the OP is not competing with for money, or anything of any significant value. WHO CARES? That's why we go back to what I was originally saying - SKILL > equipment (regarding barrel lengths).
I don't think those who are advocating using a pump with two barrels are aspiring to be professionals. Go back and read where I even said if you are wanting to play competitively, get an O/U, but if it is weekend with buddies, then go with a pump and a couple of barrels. Regardless of which way you want to play, the longer barrel is better for skeet and wing shooting. Using the wrong tool for the job does not build skill, it builds frustration. Trust me, if you are shooting perfect score of 25 with an 18" barrel, you are the exception, not the norm.

Obviously I am not going to change your opinion, and you are not going to change mine, because you are wrong...so let's just agree to disagree.
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Old 10-04-2012, 20:53   #49
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Just buy either a Beretta 3901 or a Mossberg 930 auto. Both under $600. I have The 930 Mossy auto. For $400, it's the best value in autos next to the 3901.

If you get serious about skeet, then look for a used Beretta 680 series with sub-gauge tubes. My personal comp skeet gun is a Krieghoff K-80, and my son shoots a Browning 525 sporting. We are die hard skeet shooters though. Both have Briley sub-gage tubes for shooting 20, 28 and .410 loads.

As far as HD is concerned, my 930 Mossy with a 28" barrel is HD enough for me.
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Old 10-04-2012, 21:02   #50
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I don't think those who are advocating using a pump with two barrels are aspiring to be professionals.
Exactly! So if they aren't aspiring to be professionals, their training/skill matters much more than an extra 10 inches of barrel....

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Using the wrong tool for the job does not build skill, it builds frustration. Trust me, if you are shooting perfect score of 25 with an 18" barrel, you are the exception, not the norm.
The wrong tool for the job? Last I checked, a shotgun with a cylinder or improved cylinder choke with number 8 shot is more than capable of knocking skeet out to 30-40 yards, even with an 18 inch barrel. Or am I the exception with that too?

I will admit though, I don't take skeet shooting seriously. I've shot it for 11 years now, and was started on it at age 12. Hell, if the range allows I'll start with the shotgun unloaded, breach open at my waist. Say "pull" - load one in the port, shoulder and fire (not at every station). That's what I am working on at the moment to get down to a "T".

Don't kid yourself on me being the only one who does this. Looking at members on this forum specifically, if I recall correctly BigBird (correct me if I'm wrong bigbird) has used 18 or 20 inch barrels for birds and skeet. Yea, we're in the minority, because most think a 28 inch or longer barrel is a MUST, it really isn't.

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Regardless of which way you want to play, the longer barrel is better for skeet and wing shooting.
I agree, but once again you blow this "handicap" way out of proportion.

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Obviously I am not going to change your opinion, and you are not going to change mine, because you are wrong...so let's just agree to disagree.
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree, I just don't want someone new to shotguns, such as the OP to think that he's going to be completely useless on the 18 inch barrel when shooting skeet against his buddies. Too many people on glocktalk blame their equipment, and not them. It's hilarious really, reminds me of back when we were all kids and that one kid loved to say "the sun was in my eyes!"

I know I tease my buddies when they beat me with their gamer shotguns saying "yea I only am using a riot gun though!" and vise versa, when I beat them I say "all you need is a riot gun, works for everything!" BUT in reality, I know if I lost, it was because they simply outshot me. If I didn't lose, I outshot them. The only time I'll buy someone's story is if their using a pistol or rifle (now THAT'S the wrong tool for the job) to knock out skeet.

In my personal opinion, and I'm not calling you a loser, BUT...... Losers blame their gear, the better person/player at whatever game thinks on how they can improve their tactics/skill.

Concluding, you and I are simply in disagreement with how much 10 inches of barrel really affects you with the task at hand.

You're right though, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Last edited by OctoberRust; 10-05-2012 at 13:18.. Reason: spelling
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