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Old 10-03-2012, 20:08   #21
avenues165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Water jugs? Expecting to fight Aqua Man? Water jugs are worse than worthless for determining what a bullet will do in a body. What's with the Wally World defense ammo? Surely, you can afford a $30 box of quality defense ammo in .357 SIG. Buy a box of quality ammo and call it a day.
There is no way I'll carry that stuff. I carry 125gr GDs. The WWB was not tested, just shooting water jugs for fun. But, it shows what a POS the bullet is.

It sucks for SD, but it is fun to use to blow up water bottles or jugs for fun.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:13   #22
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Squish...

Was the jacket on that 125gr JHP still hanging on or is it loose from the core.
No, I put it on the jacket to illustrate how smashed it is. I found the bullet on accident, what's left of the core was still on the jacket. But as I picked it up off of the ground the lead pancake fell off of the jacket.
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:25   #23
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I guess the real question is why is Double Tap using that bullet in their expensive ammo at high velocities.

Last edited by dkf; 10-03-2012 at 20:25..
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Old 10-03-2012, 20:40   #24
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I guess the real question is why is Double Tap using that bullet in their expensive ammo at high velocities.
And advertising it specifically as a Sierra.
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Old 10-03-2012, 21:50   #25
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Has someone confirmed that they are using it?
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Old 10-04-2012, 00:14   #26
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Has someone confirmed that they are using it?
Look at the pic I posted of the two rounds. The one on the right is a Sierra from Cor Bon. The one on left doesn't look anything like it.

I also highly doubt they'd admit to false advertising.

ETA---just checked their website and it's still listed as Sierra. Also left a poor review.....bet it won't make it on the review page!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:20   #27
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I'll bet your fine with your load. The 115gr +p+ supposedly has a great street record (I can state for certain because I have not seen the data). The Fed 9BPLE (9mm 115gr +p+) gives fragmentation in gel but also has good penetration, the petals come off and the majority of the bullet weight keeps on going. That load showed a wound cavity in gel that rivals those of 357 sig. Watch it on TNOutdoors9's youtube site.

I am not at all opposed to a little fragmentation, but my experience with that particular bullet in the WWB 125gr 357 sig is that it blows apart after hitting one jug. Just too much fragmentation. I'll see if I can get a photo taken of the wrecked bullet I have from WWB 125gr 357 sig after one water jug. What a mess! I do love it for killing water jugs and bottles, very reactive targets!
Thanks for the info.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:25   #28
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After I posted my review on their website last night on the 50rd box of JHP's it is now gone from their listing! They usually list 20rd, 50rd, and 500rd packages. The only one left is the 20rd one and it no longer says "Sierra". Hmmmm.......
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:38   #29
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I'll make no excuses for DT. Only that I think since another company went to a new bullet, that the SIERRA's might be in short supply, or have become cruelly expensive.

If a person doesn't want the Winchester version, then there is always the more street
proven Gold Dot, as loaded by Double Tap or Speer.

I actually like the Barnes/TAC-XPs the best ( no way for jacket/core separation) but price seems to be the factor there.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:34   #30
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The Sierra JHPs have been in stock pretty much every place I have checked on the net in the last couple years. Probably cost cutting to use the the same bullet in 9mm and .357sig.

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:58   #31
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I just thought of something. Has anyone inspected the muzzle crown on the subject pistol? Any dent there could cause bullet tumbling.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:47   #32
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I just thought of something. Has anyone inspected the muzzle crown on the subject pistol? Any dent there could cause bullet tumbling.

It didn't do it with the other rounds. Also, used two barrels: one was a factory G32 barrel and the other was a Storm Lake drop-in. One keyhole in the pic was from each barrel.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:04   #33
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Aha

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Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
It didn't do it with the other rounds. Also, used two barrels: one was a factory G32 barrel and the other was a Storm Lake drop-in. One keyhole in the pic was from each barrel.
I see . . . . .
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Old 10-06-2012, 16:06   #34
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The bullet is not Seirra. Bullets Key Hole when they are not stabilized either due to too slow rifling, or the bullet weight being strangely distributed in the bullet. The Seirra load from DT is a good round and if you have anymore of the bad rounds, please send it back to Mike and find out what is going on. That load most closely duplicates the 125gr SJHP round of the 357 mag made by Federal or Remington. In the 357 Mag (and Seirra sig), the bullet rapidly expand, fragments and loses 30-35% of its weight. 70% of the bullet penetrate over 11". Back when men were men, that was the external ballistics of probably the most effective 125gr 357magnum round. Just because we now have bonded bullets, do not fool yourself into thinking that anything before would not quickly stop a threat. Although I carry the 125gr 357 Sig HST now, I would feel very safe with the DT Seirra load, assuming DT gets its bullet issue straight.
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Old 10-06-2012, 18:15   #35
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The bullet is not Seirra. Bullets Key Hole when they are not stabilized either due to too slow rifling, or the bullet weight being strangely distributed in the bullet. The Seirra load from DT is a good round and if you have anymore of the bad rounds, please send it back to Mike and find out what is going on. That load most closely duplicates the 125gr SJHP round of the 357 mag made by Federal or Remington. In the 357 Mag (and Seirra sig), the bullet rapidly expand, fragments and loses 30-35% of its weight. 70% of the bullet penetrate over 11". Back when men were men, that was the external ballistics of probably the most effective 125gr 357magnum round. Just because we now have bonded bullets, do not fool yourself into thinking that anything before would not quickly stop a threat. Although I carry the 125gr 357 Sig HST now, I would feel very safe with the DT Seirra load, assuming DT gets its bullet issue straight.
Well for starters, shipping ammo is kind of a PIA; you have to get an ORM-D sticker and pay hazmat. Then of course if he isn't using Sierras now (which we've kind of ascertained here) then why go through the hassle of sending it back? All he would do (at most) is send me more of the same.

And I agree with you about the duplication of .357 magnum ballistics with bullets that aren't bonded. That is why I'm so pissed but mainly disappointed about these DT rounds. I chrono'd them at 1452fps average from a 4" barrel and was going to use them as my carry load. Now I guess it's Cor Bon for the time being until I can get some of Underwood's "improved" 357Sig, albeit a Gold Dot and not a cup-and-core bullet.

Why oh why do the major manufacturers water down the 357Sig? To me, 1330-1350fps isn't much of an improvement over a 9mm +P+ to sacrifice less capacity and more recoil.......now 1450fps? That is what I'm talking about!
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Old 10-06-2012, 20:33   #36
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Just pull the bullet and send that. I have just started to trust DT again and if he is going to start substituting bullets again, our relationship is over.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:03   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Water jugs? Expecting to fight Aqua Man? Water jugs are worse than worthless for determining what a bullet will do in a body. What's with the Wally World defense ammo? Surely, you can afford a $30 box of quality defense ammo in .357 SIG. Buy a box of quality ammo and call it a day.
I'm not convinced the WWB wouldn't be a good self-defense load. I've never seen a legit gelatin test of this load and just about everyone knows water is very hard on a bullet.

As far a I'm concerned it is an unknown.

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Old 10-07-2012, 07:34   #38
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Well for starters, shipping ammo is kind of a PIA; you have to get an ORM-D sticker and pay hazmat. Then of course if he isn't using Sierras now (which we've kind of ascertained here) then why go through the hassle of sending it back? All he would do (at most) is send me more of the same.

And I agree with you about the duplication of .357 magnum ballistics with bullets that aren't bonded. That is why I'm so pissed but mainly disappointed about these DT rounds. I chrono'd them at 1452fps average from a 4" barrel and was going to use them as my carry load. Now I guess it's Cor Bon for the time being until I can get some of Underwood's "improved" 357Sig, albeit a Gold Dot and not a cup-and-core bullet.

Why oh why do the major manufacturers water down the 357Sig? To me, 1330-1350fps isn't much of an improvement over a 9mm +P+ to sacrifice less capacity and more recoil.......now 1450fps? That is what I'm talking about!
There are no hazmat fees for shipping loaded ammo. It needs to be marked ORM-D, but you can do it with a sharpie. Also, you can print out an ORM-D lablel and glue it on if it needs to be more "official" looking. You CAN NOT ship ammo through the US Mail however.

As to why are the loads watered down, my guess is two reasons. One, there is no advantage to driving the bullet 100fps faster. The second is that if you drive them at 1450fps and expect them to be used by anybody, at anytime, in any gun, under any conditions, you will get problems. Problems lead to a loss of good will and the manufacturer's reputation suffers.

Apparently a 125 at 1450fps, in 357Sig, is more trouble than it is worth if you are an ammo manufacturer.

If you are going to be shooting boutique ammo for the purpose of driving a 9mm 125 grain bullet at high velocity, an arbitrary goal to be sure, you would do much better with the bigger bottleneck rounds anyway. the 9x25 Dillon is available from DT and supposedly does 1700fps with a 125.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:12   #39
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the 9x25 Dillon is available from DT and supposedly does 1700fps with a 125.
1700 FPS out of a defensive handgun? Awesome!
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:42   #40
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Okay, finally got over to my buddy's and used his bullet puller. The DT 125gr miked at .351"!

I think we have the answer as to why it keyholed.
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