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Old 10-07-2012, 12:30   #81
IvanVic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aircarver View Post
When Romney wins, business will be released from the boot on the neck of communism, and unemployment will come down.

... But not before the real figures are revealed, and they will be much higher than Obamas' minions' cooked figures.

.
If the BLS is an organization involved in a conspiracy, what does it matter what the "real" numbers are?

There seem to be quite an awful lot of contradictions here. First it was a conspiracy to help Obama (even though it makes him look bad because the rate has been above 8% for nearly his entire term), then Ruble Noon said the conspiracy will turn in the opposite direction under Romney and unemployment numbers will be shifted up, but then Aircarver says that the conspiracy will disappear under Romney and real numbers will be reported.

Which is it? Or, like all conspiracy theories, does it just morph to fit the agenda of the conspiracy theorist at any given time?


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Old 10-07-2012, 12:37   #82
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Originally Posted by JFrame View Post
If you're citing that specific post, I don't see how you can infer anything more than what I said from seven words and a number.

And are you honestly arguing that the MSM didn't attack Bush at virtually every turn?

The release of a number dropping employment under 8 percent the day after Obama got his ass handed in a debate isn't remotely curious to you?


.
Of course the media attacked president Bush. But unemployment was reported at a very low rate during most of his term, how does that fit into the conspiracy?

The numbers didn't just randomly come out after the debate, they come out every month around the same time. If the number had gone up and not down, nobody in this thread would have questioned it. The conspiracy disappears when the information agrees with the conspiracy theorists agenda, and suddenly reappears when things don't go their way. That's how every conspiracy works. Even after pointing out all of the contradictions, they're still blind to it.

If Obama can control the reporting of the unemployment figures with a snap of his fingers, why was it over 8% for the last 3.8 years when he promised that the stimulus would keep it below 8%?


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Old 10-07-2012, 12:51   #83
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
Of course the media attacked president Bush. But unemployment was reported at a very low rate during most of his term, how does that fit into the conspiracy?
Not to say there IS a conspiracy -- but certainly the MSM felt they had enough talking points to attack Bush on, without falsifying or cooking employment numbers.

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If Obama can control the reporting of the unemployment figures with a snap of his fingers, why was it over 8% for the last 3.8 years when he promised that the stimulus would keep it below 8%?
Perhaps because they previously did not have an employment pretext with which they could actually cook the numbers with some plausible deniability. Also, it could just be strategy. It's hard to keep cooking numbers every month under scrutiny -- but a one-shot deal, especially after one suffers a disastrous and humiliating debate loss, might be deemed the perfect time.

Again -- I'm not necessarily asserting that there is a numbers-cooking conspiracy, but given the timeliness of the numbers report, to totally discount it as a possibility confers its own bias.

And as I remarked earlier -- I tend to give more credence to Jack Welch's opinions, in regard to the economy, than I do yours or mine.


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Old 10-07-2012, 13:11   #84
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
So what will you be saying when Romney wins and the number continues on a downward trend? Will you be back in here to revise your conspiracy theory and claim that it's morphed into an even more evil plot than before?
Nothing conspiratorial about it. The unemployment rate has been under reported for quite some time and especially when a democrat is in office. Look how the reported 8 percent unemployment has become the new normal while 4.7 percent under Bush was a recession. 8% unemployment under Hussein has been labeled as fun employment, a chance to spend time with your family, a chance to pursue your dreams, a blessing. Same with gasoline prices, $3 a gallon under Bush was a travesty while gas pushing $6 a gallon under Hussein is acceptable.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:00   #85
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Here's where the conspiracy really starts. About a day or two before the debate, it was revealed that the economy added a net total of 169,000 jobs in September. All economists on all news stations said that number was very unlikely to lower the unemployment rate down from 8.1%. Strangely, the day after the debate we are told the unemployment rate dropped to 7.8%. Do the math. It doesn't add up, until you factor in one thing. The unemployment rate is calculated by the number of people actively seeking employment as reportable through verifiable sources such as state unemployment offices. Those numbers don't include the people whose unemployment benefits have now expired, nor people like me who have not gone to an unemployment office because they don't need assistance, but are unemployed and actively seeking work.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:08   #86
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Here's where the conspiracy really starts. About a day or two before the debate, it was revealed that the economy added a net total of 169,000 jobs in September. All economists on all news stations said that number was very unlikely to lower the unemployment rate down from 8.1%. Strangely, the day after the debate we are told the unemployment rate dropped to 7.8%. Do the math. It doesn't add up, until you factor in one thing. The unemployment rate is calculated by the number of people actively seeking employment as reportable through verifiable sources such as state unemployment offices. Those numbers don't include the people whose unemployment benefits have now expired, nor people like me who have not gone to an unemployment office because they don't need assistance, but are unemployed and actively seeking work.
The answer is an "Occam's Razor" conclusion. It is too simple and is being overlooked with complicated explanations.

Is there any person who believes that "8.1%" had anything to do with the actual unemployment rate?

That number is arrived at by juggling stats, classification decisions, etc. It is a manipulated number to begin with.

So how hard could it be to make a ".3" manipulation at the moment the boss needs it?

A .3 drop would have had no potential effect on the election months or years ago, but just at the moment it could it happens.

Sure.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:10   #87
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So many people doing anything they can to shore up Obama.
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Old 10-07-2012, 17:11   #88
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Is the jobs report a conspiracy? Well, the current head of the NLB, Erica Groshen, is yet another person in this administration who's a communist.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/18/ob...d-summer-camp/
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:35   #89
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I do not waste time arguing what bureaucrats say. They, the gov't bureaucrats, do have the advantage of collecting data better than a commercial organization. That I agree. However, their ability to compile and analyze data has much to be desired.

If anyone is so skilled in data analysis, that person can certainly earn much bigger paycheck out in the commercial world analyzing marketing data, making beaucoup dollars. Those who can't and wanna-be, work for the gov't. That's my view.

Back in 2003 or 2004, the census bureau projected that FL would become the 3rd most populous state in the union by 2012. They said that based on the trend of people moving to FL at that time. Never happenned. I laughed at the time because I knew those idiots just connected the data points without rational understand of why the data occurred the way it did. Had they done that, they'd understand the reasons people moved in... and then without those conditions, they moved out... Just idiots interpreting numbers with no understanding of why things happened.

Why waste time arguing what they report ?
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:37   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipedreams View Post
The unemployment rate fell to 7.8% in September. What’s your take on this?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/multim...192849572.html

Bottom right of page.


Current numbers:

It assures President Obama's re-election (8604)
9%

It's proof the economy is improving (21280)
22%

It's temporary, the worst isn't over (11403)
12%


I don't trust the numbers (55030)
57%

It's BS. Real unemployment is around 25%.




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Old 10-07-2012, 19:38   #91
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Originally Posted by janice6 View Post
So many people doing anything they can to shore up Obama.


This is the equivalent of a 9/11 truther claiming that someone who does not believe the government was behind the attacks is supporting Bush.
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:42   #92
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post


This is the equivalent of a 9/11 truther claiming that someone who does not believe the government was behind the attacks is supporting Bush.
Yup just like those "Fast and Furious" truthers who simply won't believe what the administration tells them to.

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Old 10-08-2012, 08:49   #93
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NEVER trust ANY info that comes from the ultra corrupt obama administration.

Just write it off as propaganda.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:54   #94
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Yup just like those "Fast and Furious" truthers who simply won't believe what the administration tells them to.

If you're attempting to draw an analogy between the two, it is clear you do not understand the difference.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:04   #95
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post


This is the equivalent of a 9/11 truther claiming that someone who does not believe the government was behind the attacks is supporting Bush.
You're right, I can't believe an Administration illegally telling contractors to ignore the WARN act and offering indemnification would be capable of chicanery.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:50   #96
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
If you're attempting to draw an analogy between the two, it is clear you do not understand the difference.
Well, don't keep us waiting. We would love to hear an Obama supporter's view of Fast and Furious and why it appears Holder and the rest of the Obama administration are lying their butts off, when really, it is just our imagination.

Go ahead. This ought to be good.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:07   #97
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Well, don't keep us waiting. We would love to hear an Obama supporter's view of Fast and Furious and why it appears Holder and the rest of the Obama administration are lying their butts off, when really, it is just our imagination.

Go ahead. This ought to be good.
Fast 'n Furious was an actual government scandal which the Obama administration was responsible for - the unemployment rate has been calculated and reported by the BLS since Moses wore short pants, regardless of the administration. Do you see the difference?

I'm just curious, do you categorize any and everyone with whom you disagree on any given topic (even one that has nothing to do with Obama) as an "Obama supporter?" Do you find it to be a productive form of engagement?
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:14   #98
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
Fast 'n Furious was an actual government scandal which the Obama administration was responsible for - the unemployment rate has been calculated and reported by the BLS since Moses wore short pants, regardless of the administration. Do you see the difference?

I'm just curious, do you categorize any and everyone with whom you disagree on any given topic (even one that has nothing to do with Obama) as an "Obama supporter?" Do you find it to be a productive form of engagement?
I know they were responsible for it. I'm asking you if you think they have lied about it and are continuing to lie about it.

I worked for the federal government for 21 years and I saw numbers juggled every way possible for lots of reasons. It's endemic with the federal government (and most state and local governments as well). It's every bureacrats stock in trade, used for their chief ambition (survival).
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:26   #99
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
If you're attempting to draw an analogy between the two, it is clear you do not understand the difference.
Oh I understand it when I hear a liberal fall back on "you don't understand"

So you are willing to accept the statistics from the Government because?????? Because they've always come from the Government?

So, then , you do agree with me on thing like that actual existence of WMDS in Iraq for instance, and they were just moved before we got to them, after all you aren't one of those folks that doesn't trust what the Government tells you.


You must also believe that Fast and Furioud had no connection to upper levels of Government, just a rogue project by some low level pogues right?

Your trust of Government correlates to it fiting in your agenda.

If you have ever doubted a Government report, then you have no business heckling people who doubt them either.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:03   #100
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Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
I know they were responsible for it. I'm asking you if you think they have lied about it and are continuing to lie about it.
Of course, it wouldn't be a scandal if they hadn't lied.

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Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
I worked for the federal government for 21 years and I saw numbers juggled every way possible for lots of reasons.
Yet this only seems to come up when people do not like the numbers. Obama is president, unemployment goes down = numbers must be rigged. Obama is president, unemployment goes up = numbers are gospel.

If the numbers were rigged, why didn't they bring the unemployment down below 8% a long time ago when he promised the stimulus would do this?

When you pick and choose whether or not you believe the numbers based on your political party affiliation, you lose all credibility. The numbers are either real or they aren't, and that applies to all administrations. If Romney wins the election, I bet you'll see most of the posters in this thread quoting the falling unemployment rate as an indication of his success (and they'd be right). However, myself and 1 or 2 other people in this thread will be the only ones who can effectively do that without looking like a hypocrite - because our position on the unemployment rate is consistent irrespective of who is in office.

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Oh I understand it when I hear a liberal fall back on "you don't understand"
So you define a liberal as someone who does not believe there is a massive conspiracy surrounding the unemployment rate? That's a new one. Apparently your political repertoire only goes as far as "if you disagree with me, you're a liberal!"

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So you are willing to accept the statistics from the Government because?????? Because they've always come from the Government?
No, I accept them because your conspiracy theory is filled with holes and contradictions, as are all conspiracy theories. There is no consistency in your argument, unless you're claiming that the unemployment rate has been a conspiracy since its inception - but I've yet to see a single person say that. They only have a problem with it when it suits their agenda. Oddly enough, these will be the first people to laugh and mock liberals 2 years from now when the far left refuses to accept that unemployment went down under Romney. Mark my words.

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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
So, then , you do agree with me on thing like that actual existence of WMDS in Iraq for instance, and they were just moved before we got to them, after all you aren't one of those folks that doesn't trust what the Government tells you.


You must also believe that Fast and Furioud had no connection to upper levels of Government, just a rogue project by some low level pogues right?

Your trust of Government correlates to it fiting in your agenda.

If you have ever doubted a Government report, then you have no business heckling people who doubt them either.
You're attempting to draw equivalencies between singular events that are specific to one administration. The unemployment rate has been calculated by the same department for many, many years across many administrations - this is one of the fundamental reasons that your theory does not make sense.
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