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Old 10-07-2012, 19:46   #26
ak103k
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These days, I primary only use irons on my target rifles, and older military guns that are more toys/range guns than anything else. M1's, M1A, 03', Mausers, Colt SP1, etc are all optics free and with their issue sights. Same goes for my Winchester lever guns, and a few other commercial bolt guns.

The advantage to the dot sights is instantly obvious when you use them, but everyone really should learn how to shoot using the iron sights.

As far as batteries going dead, or the optic failing, if you dont buy junk, its a lot less of an issue, and of course, the cowitnessed BUIS are right there if you should need them. Im still running Aimpoint M2's on most of my guns that have one, and have had them since they were the "current" sight of the type. They only have a 10000 hour battery life, and I dont even turn them off, just change the batteries once a year. Yhe newer models run much longer.
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Old 10-07-2012, 23:46   #27
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I'm broke, that's why I just have irons. Trained with irons. I think that everyone should be able to shoot with irons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
I do teach irons only courses and have done so for several years as a planned progression of training. IMO this produces higher quality shooters when teaching or reinforcing fundamentals via irons. This goes for newer shooters or even when taking experienced shooters and breaking them down to the basics and rebuilding them. So yes I have irons only set ups.

I will note that during intensive irons only courses, shooters are exposed to a multitude of alternate or improvised shooting positions and scenario's including low / no light etc, that it quickly becomes clearly obvious where irons can be a serious limiting factor in a shooters performance especially in critical use training, scenarios, etc, to include force on force. IMO anyone who uses this platform for potential critical use applications are greatly benefited by having training with and deploying a modern capable red dot / optic.
I agree. If you can hit something at 500 yards with your irons, well, you have taken the pebble from the master's hand. A man size target looks like a dot at 500 yards. Now, you take someone who can do that, then give them optics, they can do amazing things. The optic as well as the quality of the optic will only increase their capabilities. Other way around where someone can only shoot well with an optic, the quality and capability of their optic will be the deciding factor on their performance. Take away the optic, they are lost.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:17   #28
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Iron's all the way, I shoot well with them and enjoy using them! Nothing wrong with optics but I shoot several military surplus rifles and ak's as well, all iron's there too. I wouldn't mind slapping an Acog on one of the AR's if they weren't so dang expensive!

you got that right i have been wanting a 1-4 x optic for a while now...but too damn expensive.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:49   #29
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I'm not quite ready for Armageddon yet, but when it comes, I'll use my Aimpoint. In the mean time, iron sights are more challenging and fun. I prefer a DD1.5 over a folding type because there are less moving parts. The carry handle is fine also.

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Old 10-08-2012, 08:53   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
you got that right i have been wanting a 1-4 x optic for a while now...but too damn expensive.
What about a Nikon 1-4 x 20 M-223?
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:56   #31
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AK here, and while I have rds capability- I train with irons a bunch. A rds is an enhancement- not a skill-builder
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:05   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TattooedGlock View Post
Iron sights serve a purpose, but I see more and more folks who aren't taking their AR to the desert, not using them. Never hurts to have backup though. I just put an ACOG on my POF so I can't really use them due to the magnification. I might put a set on an angle offset mount but haven't decided yet.
The xs xti off set sights are great from the times i have used them with a magnified optic


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:22   #33
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What distances are you guys talking about for iron vs. optics? DOC
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:23   #34
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I have a scope on my 10/22 with iron sights under it I really like the set up for me a scope is a big bonus. I will admit that I need to train with irons more I wear glass's and find them difficult to use and hit accurately with past 40 yards or so I guess I'm just used to scopes but if I could I'd go with both. as it is I've got to lever guns a 500 20 and a 10/22 so I only have a scope on one and don't plan on putting scopes on the other ones.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:24   #35
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If I had a ar I would have maybe 4x scope not sure which with back up iron sights.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:34   #36
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WHile I have Troy BUISs, and I have them sighted in at 50 yards, I hardly ever use them.

My Eotech is much more precise, and you can't beat the sight picture.
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:44   #37
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I like options.

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Old 10-08-2012, 15:59   #38
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Sweet rifle Smokin.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:05   #39
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Sweet rifle Smokin.
Thank you.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:31   #40
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Both my ARs have optics (EOTech EXPS on the 16" and 4-16x60 Nikon on the 20"), but they also both have BUIS. No reason not to.
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:18   #41
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For duty, I got a Troy fixed rear. It up and ready when I pull it out of the case and its very accurate. Plan on getting an XS front soon.
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:27   #42
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I own 2 bushmaster a1's circa 1999 that have been flawless. I only use iron because they will never see any use beyond 100 yards, SelfDefense or otherwise. The only additive as been a magpul afg.

* I use the afg as a grip... I do not use it as a platform to grip the handguard like a fire hose like its intended. I like to form up behind the rifle and get small.. I dont and wont do all this boxer stance/ firehose thing.. I am just too old skool for the new kool.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:23   #43
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Or just to set in your ways to improve?
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:27   #44
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Options are a good thing but iron sights never lose battery power or shatter.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:02   #45
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Seen two Matechs break, and an A2 rear fall out.

It 'can' happen....... highly unlikely, but never say never.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:49   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffhunter View Post
For duty, I got a Troy fixed rear. It up and ready when I pull it out of the case and its very accurate. Plan on getting an XS front soon.
Make sure to let them know you're Leo. I think it drops the price to like $25


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong
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Old 10-09-2012, 20:21   #47
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I believe they're very important. However, I prefer red dots for the speed. My irons are zeroed for 50 yards.
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Old 10-09-2012, 20:25   #48
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Fixed or flip, Troy is the way to go. Period.
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Old 10-09-2012, 20:44   #49
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Fixed or flip, Troy is the way to go. Period.
Over Magpul? You (or someone else) has tried both and feels the same?
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Old 10-09-2012, 21:29   #50
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Colt 6721 with a carry handle.

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