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Old 10-07-2012, 09:46   #1
cajun_chooter
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Florida AG Says Carrying a Gun is Always Presumably a Crime

ever since the Martin shooting in Florida... cops will be trying to deter anyone from carrying.. nuf said

Moderator Note: I moved this discussion to its own thread so as not to derail Arrested, prosecuted for incidental exposure.

Lets center it around the FL AG's opinion. Link to commentary on that is in Posts #5 and #8.

Last edited by RussP; 10-08-2012 at 07:38..
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:34   #2
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Louisiana law keys on carrying "in a manner to alarm the public".

Even if one thinks this is a poor legal description, it is a good guide line to use when selecting one's own mode of carry.

This definition would protect (though not perfectly) me from being picked up due to a printing noticeable only by a trained eye. It would also give some protection to Safepacker and fanny pack rigs.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:49   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun_chooter View Post
ever since the Martin shooting in Florida... cops will be trying to deter anyone from carrying.. nuf said
Funny thing is...up to this point, the police are the only ones who got that one right.
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Old 10-07-2012, 21:44   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun_chooter View Post
ever since the Martin shooting in Florida... cops will be trying to deter anyone from carrying.. nuf said
How much you wanna bet TM would be alive today if Z had been openly carrying?
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Old 10-07-2012, 22:01   #5
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Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
How much you wanna bet TM would be alive today if Z had been openly carrying?
Interesting that you live in Clark County NV. and say this. TM might be alive but Z may have been shot like Erik Scott was in Clark County if our Attorney General's Office wins another important case that is now before the FL Supreme Court.

Mackey v. State

Jeff Knox lays is out at:
http://www.allnineyards.com/2012/10/.../#comment-1007
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Old 10-07-2012, 23:18   #6
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... shot like Erik Scott was in Clark County...
Erik Scott was carrying concealed and got made. This is extremely different than openly carrying.

I am by no means excusing his murder caused by Costco management and the police.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:11   #7
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Originally Posted by cajun_chooter View Post
ever since the Martin shooting in Florida... cops will be trying to deter anyone from carrying.. nuf said
Really? Where have officers gone on record saying no one should carry? I keep reading things like this on the internet and yet, oddly, I never seem to hear anything like it in real life.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:27   #8
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Florida AG Says Carrying a Gun is Always Presumably a Crime

FL Attorney General Pam Bondi’s position is that anyone carrying a gun should always be presumed to be a committing a felony
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:46   #9
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The arrest in question involved a guy with previous arrests (convicted felon) leaning on a fence with grip of the gun sticking out of his pocket (pocket carry - another thread) in a drug hole. I am uncertain what the AG's position is, although admittedly it seems messed up based on the title. But the incident in question sounds like solid Constitutional police work to me.
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Last edited by Bruce M; 10-08-2012 at 07:47..
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:49   #10
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Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
Erik Scott was carrying concealed and got made. This is extremely different than openly carrying.

I am by no means excusing his murder caused by Costco management and the police.

If we are going to assign blame as to his death, let's not forget that Mr. Scott had a high level of morphine in his system and reached for his gun when he was stopped by the police. I wonder how many other people LVMPD contacted that day and other days that do not reach for guns while they are high on morphine do not get shot.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:51   #11
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Strange, any time I've told a cop I was carrying when it came up in conversation they didn't even bat an eye.

Whats that phrase again...tot...totall....totally...circumstances? Pam Bondi is an idiot. Pam Bondi is also not a police officer and our police officers (as long as you stay away from the Southeastern seaboard and out of St Petersburg/Clearwater) are not generally idiots.

Last edited by John Rambo; 10-08-2012 at 07:52..
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:30   #12
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Depends heavily on your location within Florida. I've had traffic stops where the officer didn't even ask me if I had a weapon. And then I know people that have been dragged out of the car & cuffed for LEGALLY carrying concealed while they were in a bad area or late at night.
No duty to inform in FL so I shut my mouth.

Last edited by fuzzy03cls; 10-08-2012 at 08:31..
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:47   #13
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Maybe we should assume 95% politicians are cheats and they should be arrested/investigated to prove they are not.

The AG is stretching and reaching for anything to develop reasonable suspicion.

Sounds like a bureaucratic government leach....trying to get more power for the gubbermit!




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Old 10-08-2012, 09:22   #14
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One thing to bear in mind about whatever the Florida AG has to say.

The FLorida AG has opinions and that is all. unlike many other states the Fl AG has no authority whatsoever over Fl LE agencies and cannot dictate policies for LE.

The Ag's role in Fl is strictly advisory with no legal weight behind the advisory.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:27   #15
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The guy is an idiot. He can say the world is flat too. Doesn't change reality.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:28   #16
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The FL CCW permit is legal authorization granted to the permit holder by the State of Florida to carry a concealed weapon in the manner proscribed by FL law.

If the CCW holder is doing that in accordance with the law, then politely answering an officer's questions and producing the permit should end the matter. It's up to the permit holder to obey the laws under which the permit was issued, and not be a complete flaming jerk should an officer see what they view as a suspicious bulge under the permit holder's clothing and decide to investigate.

An officer who does choose to investigate a 'suspicious bulge' is understandably concerned about a possible crime, and about their personal safety. A little common sense and common courtesy on the CCW's part can defuse just about any such situation.

Becoming antagonistic and loudly arguing your 2nd Ammendment rights while an officer is trying to decide if he is dealing with an armed felon is rather stupid.

The Bondi opinion may presume a felony, but my CCW permit clearly states otherwise to any officer I am contacted by, once I politely show him my permit. That is the point you want to get to quickly, and without drama, in any officer initiated contact.
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:30   #17
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When anyone in the justice system who gets the "everyone is a criminal" mentality; they have either been on the job too long or are mentally defective and need to be let go.
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:54   #18
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Quote:
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...Mr. Scott ... reached for his gun when he was stopped by the police.....
It is not my intention to hijack this thread, but if you are going to bring this up, then clarification is in order.

Mr Scott did not have a gun in his hand. One of the police officers yelled at him to drop his gun. It's awfully hard to drop it until you reach for it.

Mistakes were made on all sides. The shoot was a bad one.
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Last edited by MAC702; 10-08-2012 at 15:55..
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:57   #19
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Basic tenet in our country: Presumed guilty until proven otherwise.

What an *****.
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:54   #20
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Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
It is not my intention to hijack this thread, but if you are going to bring this up, then clarification is in order.

Mr Scott did not have a gun in his hand. One of the police officers yelled at him to drop his gun. It's awfully hard to drop it until you reach for it.

Mistakes were made on all sides. The shoot was a bad one.

Out of curiosity was there an investigation? An inquest?
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:12   #21
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Originally Posted by Chris Chris View Post
The FL CCW permit is legal authorization granted to the permit holder by the State of Florida to carry a concealed weapon in the manner proscribed by FL law.

If the CCW holder is doing that in accordance with the law, then politely answering an officer's questions and producing the permit should end the matter. It's up to the permit holder to obey the laws under which the permit was issued, and not be a complete flaming jerk should an officer see what they view as a suspicious bulge under the permit holder's clothing and decide to investigate.

An officer who does choose to investigate a 'suspicious bulge' is understandably concerned about a possible crime, and about their personal safety. A little common sense and common courtesy on the CCW's part can defuse just about any such situation.

Becoming antagonistic and loudly arguing your 2nd Ammendment rights while an officer is trying to decide if he is dealing with an armed felon is rather stupid.

The Bondi opinion may presume a felony, but my CCW permit clearly states otherwise to any officer I am contacted by, once I politely show him my permit. That is the point you want to get to quickly, and without drama, in any officer initiated contact.
This. Word for word. I have never understood the people that antagonize an officer during a stop. Being cooperative beats being an argumentative ass every time, even if the officer is not showing you the same courtesy. If you get an officer that is being a jerk, take it up with his superiors at a later time. The side of the road is NEVER the place to argue or be a Constitution Commando.

I have been asked by an officer to search my vehicle on one occasion. I did not ask why as it really didn't matter to me. I had nothing to hide, so I said absolutely. He asked me to exit the vehicle and retreived the german shepherd from his car. He opened all the doors and the trunk and allowed the dog to sniff around the inside of the car. It literally took about 2 minutes and that was the end of that. The officer thanked me for my cooperation and didn't even write me the speeding ticket I deserved. Had I been a jerk about it and blabbered about my constitutional rights, I am sure things would have gone south in a hurry. I don't get why some people don't understand that.

Last edited by Roger1079; 10-08-2012 at 18:14..
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:48   #22
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I carry a G17 up here in VT everyday. I am not a felon!
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:53   #23
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Allow me to predict that isn't going to work out for them in the future.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:21   #24
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Allow me to predict that isn't going to work out for them in the future.
You're probably correct!
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:53   #25
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
This. Word for word. I have never understood the people that antagonize an officer during a stop. Being cooperative beats being an argumentative ass every time, even if the officer is not showing you the same courtesy. If you get an officer that is being a jerk, take it up with his superiors at a later time. The side of the road is NEVER the place to argue or be a Constitution Commando.

I have been asked by an officer to search my vehicle on one occasion. I did not ask why as it really didn't matter to me. I had nothing to hide, so I said absolutely. He asked me to exit the vehicle and retreived the german shepherd from his car. He opened all the doors and the trunk and allowed the dog to sniff around the inside of the car. It literally took about 2 minutes and that was the end of that. The officer thanked me for my cooperation and didn't even write me the speeding ticket I deserved. Had I been a jerk about it and blabbered about my constitutional rights, I am sure things would have gone south in a hurry. I don't get why some people don't understand that.

^^ And this too. ^^

Yes sir, no sir.

Assuming you're not being asked to take part in the receiving end of an impromptu body cavity search to be performed by a rhinoceros, complying with the officers' requests without attitude will up your chances of a non-issue tremendously.
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