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Old 10-07-2012, 15:59   #21
Ruggles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole125 View Post
EOTechs are good optics, and I too prefer the EOTech reticle over the Aimpoint dot for longer range shooting. The fact is, Aimpoints are more reliable, durable, and have a longer battery life. The new CR123 powered EOTechs are a huge improvement, though.
Fair enough
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Old 10-07-2012, 16:04   #22
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My duty rifle wears fixed irons, FSP w/ tritium insert and DD 1.5 in the rear. It also wear and Aimpoint Pro. I am very proficient with the irons, groups are a but tighter with the Aimpoint though. We are required to qualify with both irons and optics so no crutches allowed.
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Old 10-07-2012, 16:09   #23
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The majority of my rifles do have AimPoint red dot sights. Of the two that have irons only, I shoot them well. I like to shoot with iron sights to keep my skills sharp and for the fun of it. There is no question that I would always go with an optic over irons only. I run my rifles hard and train from awkward positions, etc. The RDS helps with speed and precision while making those tough shots.
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Old 10-07-2012, 18:50   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
Out of curiousity, how many folks use only Irons sights with no optics and why? Show your setup if possible.
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Old 10-07-2012, 18:50   #25
Fordtough25
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Iron's all the way, I shoot well with them and enjoy using them! Nothing wrong with optics but I shoot several military surplus rifles and ak's as well, all iron's there too. I wouldn't mind slapping an Acog on one of the AR's if they weren't so dang expensive!
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Old 10-07-2012, 19:46   #26
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These days, I primary only use irons on my target rifles, and older military guns that are more toys/range guns than anything else. M1's, M1A, 03', Mausers, Colt SP1, etc are all optics free and with their issue sights. Same goes for my Winchester lever guns, and a few other commercial bolt guns.

The advantage to the dot sights is instantly obvious when you use them, but everyone really should learn how to shoot using the iron sights.

As far as batteries going dead, or the optic failing, if you dont buy junk, its a lot less of an issue, and of course, the cowitnessed BUIS are right there if you should need them. Im still running Aimpoint M2's on most of my guns that have one, and have had them since they were the "current" sight of the type. They only have a 10000 hour battery life, and I dont even turn them off, just change the batteries once a year. Yhe newer models run much longer.
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Old 10-07-2012, 23:46   #27
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I'm broke, that's why I just have irons. Trained with irons. I think that everyone should be able to shoot with irons.

Quote:
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I do teach irons only courses and have done so for several years as a planned progression of training. IMO this produces higher quality shooters when teaching or reinforcing fundamentals via irons. This goes for newer shooters or even when taking experienced shooters and breaking them down to the basics and rebuilding them. So yes I have irons only set ups.

I will note that during intensive irons only courses, shooters are exposed to a multitude of alternate or improvised shooting positions and scenario's including low / no light etc, that it quickly becomes clearly obvious where irons can be a serious limiting factor in a shooters performance especially in critical use training, scenarios, etc, to include force on force. IMO anyone who uses this platform for potential critical use applications are greatly benefited by having training with and deploying a modern capable red dot / optic.
I agree. If you can hit something at 500 yards with your irons, well, you have taken the pebble from the master's hand. A man size target looks like a dot at 500 yards. Now, you take someone who can do that, then give them optics, they can do amazing things. The optic as well as the quality of the optic will only increase their capabilities. Other way around where someone can only shoot well with an optic, the quality and capability of their optic will be the deciding factor on their performance. Take away the optic, they are lost.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:17   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordtough25 View Post
Iron's all the way, I shoot well with them and enjoy using them! Nothing wrong with optics but I shoot several military surplus rifles and ak's as well, all iron's there too. I wouldn't mind slapping an Acog on one of the AR's if they weren't so dang expensive!

you got that right i have been wanting a 1-4 x optic for a while now...but too damn expensive.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:49   #29
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I'm not quite ready for Armageddon yet, but when it comes, I'll use my Aimpoint. In the mean time, iron sights are more challenging and fun. I prefer a DD1.5 over a folding type because there are less moving parts. The carry handle is fine also.

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Old 10-08-2012, 08:53   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoFoxtrot View Post
you got that right i have been wanting a 1-4 x optic for a while now...but too damn expensive.
What about a Nikon 1-4 x 20 M-223?
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:56   #31
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AK here, and while I have rds capability- I train with irons a bunch. A rds is an enhancement- not a skill-builder
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:05   #32
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Quote:
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Iron sights serve a purpose, but I see more and more folks who aren't taking their AR to the desert, not using them. Never hurts to have backup though. I just put an ACOG on my POF so I can't really use them due to the magnification. I might put a set on an angle offset mount but haven't decided yet.
The xs xti off set sights are great from the times i have used them with a magnified optic


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:22   #33
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What distances are you guys talking about for iron vs. optics? DOC
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:23   #34
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I have a scope on my 10/22 with iron sights under it I really like the set up for me a scope is a big bonus. I will admit that I need to train with irons more I wear glass's and find them difficult to use and hit accurately with past 40 yards or so I guess I'm just used to scopes but if I could I'd go with both. as it is I've got to lever guns a 500 20 and a 10/22 so I only have a scope on one and don't plan on putting scopes on the other ones.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:24   #35
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If I had a ar I would have maybe 4x scope not sure which with back up iron sights.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:34   #36
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WHile I have Troy BUISs, and I have them sighted in at 50 yards, I hardly ever use them.

My Eotech is much more precise, and you can't beat the sight picture.
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:44   #37
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I like options.

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Old 10-08-2012, 15:59   #38
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Sweet rifle Smokin.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:05   #39
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Sweet rifle Smokin.
Thank you.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:31   #40
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Both my ARs have optics (EOTech EXPS on the 16" and 4-16x60 Nikon on the 20"), but they also both have BUIS. No reason not to.
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