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Old 10-08-2012, 07:05   #76
Louisville Glocker
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Originally Posted by hamster View Post
Sure the guy made some mistakes along the way. But lets not let the stockholm syndrome get out of hand folks.

The mistakes this guy made are simple errors of paperwork.

Assuming he has no criminal record that would prevent him from having a CCW, then his only true mistake was not unloading the pistol and magazine. He even informed the police officer...which clearly shows to me he has no intent to hurt anyone.

Lets all remember that the supreme law of the land affirms our God given right to keep and bear arms. Lets not condemn this man over what amounts to a simple paperwork snafu. This is a case where as a member of the Jury I'd nullify.
Hamster,
While I do sympathize with the guy, and I highly suspect the judge will let him off with leniency, this wasn't an error of paperwork.

He was in violation of state law. He was carrying a loaded accessible handgun when state law clearly prohibits it. The only paperwork involved is that he didn't bother to get a license.

Do you call it paperwork because laws are written on paper?

You don't have to agree with the laws, but if you break them, you just might go to jail.
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Last edited by Louisville Glocker; 10-08-2012 at 07:08..
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:23   #77
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Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
what about crossbows? I'm leaning toward getting one for next year.
They are ok too

They used to be illegal to hunt with in NYS. The stick bow hunters, and compound bowhunters have thus far kept them out of the bow season. You have to use them in gun season here.

But if the crossbow hunters ever win the right to use them in bow season, that will be fine with me

I've taken deer with compound bow, handgun, rifle, and shotgun. I'm working on muzzleloader next. That season is at the end when it is freaking 10 degrees out!

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Old 10-08-2012, 07:28   #78
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Originally Posted by fowl intent View Post
So, I have a good friend who went to Ohio for a week of deer hunting. Being a good ole NC boy, he took his handgun along with him. Well, he got stopped for speeding, and I'm not sure how or why this came up, but he volunteered that he had a handgun in the car. Turns out that it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio, or at least that is what his hunting buddy relayed to me. Unfortunately he will have to spend the weekend in jail because he has to appear before a judge to have a bond set. This guy is in his 50's and has never seen the inside of a jail before this incident.

This started me thinking how careful you have to be when you travel from one state to another. Does anybody know if in fact it is a felony to carry a loaded handgun in Ohio? What if there was not a round in the chamber (of a semi-auto)? I assume that having a concealed carry permit from NC would not have changed the situation. It sure would be nice to have some sort of reciprocity between the states, so as not to have to deal with all of the quirky laws of different states.

Anybody else with a horror story to tell?
It sucks for your friend, but he did it to himself.

I cannot imagine why your friend thought it was a good idea to carry a concealed weapon without a permit, especially when traveling.

I am sympathetic, but he did it to himself with his ignorance.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:50   #79
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Twice in my life I ended up being, 'covered' by two, or more, other hunters whom I caught trespassing on our farmland. That's NOT where you want to be when you're carrying a double barreled shotgun full of birdshot. (I wasn't out looking for trespassers when we met.)

Another time I was quietly walking along an isolated dirt road when I glanced over my shoulder to discover I was being followed by a pack of 5 or 6 (I don't think actually feral, but) partially wild dogs! They were definitely tracking me; and, when the pack leader recognized that I was aware of them, he began coming on strong and straight at me.

I picked up a stick; but, it did not deter these animals. Instead of running away they suddenly fanned out in a circle around me! I'm a dog lover; normally, I'd go to extraordinary lengths to avoid hurting a dog; but, that day was different; and I clearly recognized that I was about to become, 'dinner'.

So, I reached under my jacket and removed my 1911. When I racked the slide it sounded like a thunderclap in those quiet woods! The next thing I know every canine instantly, 'melted away' from the spot where he'd been standing. All of them went in a different direction. Those dogs disappeared so fast into the surrounding brush that I couldn't have taken an accurate shot if I'd wanted to.

A little while later I heard the creatures calling to each other so that they could reassemble the pack. In those days I walked through these woods a lot. I only saw one or two of those dogs again; and it was way off in the distance along some railroad tracks. (They, probably, knew I was there; but they, obviously also, knew what a gun can do; and they never came near me again.)

Is there a place in the woods for a sidearm? I'd have to say, 'Sometimes'. I've known deer hunters who would carry small 22 caliber revolvers in order to administer a coup de grace without damaging the head; but, I've got to agree; personally I've never understood, 'Why' someone who is not a sports magazine writer or a handgun factory representative would deliberately go hunting with a handgun. To me handgun hunting just makes no sense. So, what should I do? Go over and sit in the corner with Jim Zumbo?
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:57   #80
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Originally Posted by Louisville Glocker View Post
Hamster,
While I do sympathize with the guy, and I highly suspect the judge will let him off with leniency, this wasn't an error of paperwork.

He was in violation of state law. He was carrying a loaded accessible handgun when state law clearly prohibits it. The only paperwork involved is that he didn't bother to get a license.

Do you call it paperwork because laws are written on paper?

You don't have to agree with the laws, but if you break them, you just might go to jail.

I understand that the guy was in violation of the law, that he should have known better and that he will likely end up in jail.

I had just hoped that the response here on GT would be "Wow, this is terrible what can we do to change the law?" Rather than the Nuremberg defense.

As for the paperwork comment. Remember he was charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. In my opinion for a felony charge, there should be a victim. But for applying for a CCW licence... OR removing the rounds from the magazine this man did nothing wrong.

He didn't hurt anyone
He didn't threaten anyone
He didn't destroy property
He didn't cause someone injury of any kind.
He didn't trespass


He even announced to the officer the fact he had a pistol for the officer's safety and piece of mind (as per Ohio CCW law).

It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.

Last edited by hamster; 10-08-2012 at 08:01..
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:13   #81
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
personally I've never understood, 'Why' someone who is not a sports magazine writer or a handgun factory representative would deliberately go hunting with a handgun. To me handgun hunting just makes no sense. So, what should I do? Go over and sit in the corner with Jim Zumbo?
Why does rifle hunting make more sense than handgun hunting?
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:17   #82
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It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.
Well, unless they carry a handgun for hunting.

Of if their rifle has a black plastic stock instead of fine wood grain.

Or if their boots are not made by LL Bean.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:26   #83
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2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
Redonkulous statement right here.

Surely the handgun was to ensure a safe trip to and from the woods. Do you only carry when you go to the "hood"? If so, my best to you and yours.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:33   #84
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At any given time I have 3 guns loaded and concealed in my vehicle. When I get in that usually makes 4.
You and me both. One of the many reasons I've never lived outside of this state, and never will.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:08   #85
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because you can use a rifle there.
That's true. I forgot about the shotgun thing.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:41   #86
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Personally I do not have my Florida CCW yet. I have an appointment for the 15th to apply for it and expect it to take 4-8 weeks before I have it. Until then I travel to ranges with gun unloaded and in the trunk in Florida and Alabama where my range is. I have looked up the reciprocity page on the web page for FL CCW and have a list of the 16 states that do not honor Florida's CCW. With the gun laws being what they are I think it foolish to carry and not be aware of the laws. I feel for your friend and don't feel he had felonious intent. But many law enforcement people will not give one a second chance on that offense.
I don't know about Alabama but in Fl. you're good in the car

Fl. Statute 790.25
(5) Possesion in Private Conveyance
Not withstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of 790.01 for a person 18 yrs of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance , without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such a firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons , including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Fl. 790.001
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether locked or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether locked or not locked; in a zippered case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.


If you got in a shoebox with a lid on it in the front seat you are within the law.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:55   #87
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IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:57   #88
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IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.


Wow......I could just go on and on.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:31   #89
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2 Points:

I have hunted all my life and have never seen a reason to carry a handgun in the woods or back country. Sure sign of someone who is uncomfortable there or just trying to play make believe.

And. When I carry in a car, the gun is unloaded and packed in a case.
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When you are hunting, you are already carrying a weapon.

You go in before sunrise and unless you are an idiot you have been in and out of the area 30 times before scouting and setting up.

Been hunting much?

I've hunted all over the country thanks to moving all over. Every place I have ever hunted and the men and boys I have hunted with would be laughing behind your back if you packed a pistol to head into the woods. (i admit to not hunting Alaska yet) maybe that is just me and my almost 50 years hunting. But that is the way I see it.

Carry a pistol while scouting before season in some parts of the country I can understand. Carrying a long gun pre-season may get you written up. But during season? Never.
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Sorry guys. I believe what I believe.

You guys go in there with your 12" elephant skinner knives and black weapons and hand guns strapped to your leg. You will feel safe and I will laugh at you. And, we will both be tickled.


Been hunting alone since I was 9. I never once felt the need for a hand gun too. neither did my grandad, my dad and now my 3 grown sons. I've never hunted with a serious hunter that carried one either.
Again, I have hunted the plains, southern US and the Rockies. I've never hunted Alaska where it may be wise.

But to each his own.
You are blissfully ignorant of many things.

First off, your scouting means nothing with the newer meth cooking techniques. Around here, they often drop off the stuff in the evening and pick it up in the morning. It doesn't take days of sitting, anymore. I prefer to hunt deer when they are moving the most, in the morning and in the evening. In til dark, out after dark. That's when they're moving this stuff.

Add on top of that, poachers and trespassers are rampant and armed.

I recommend you carry a defensive weapon ALL THE TIME.

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Originally Posted by bkkd View Post
Kentucky just passed a law allowing you to carry a handgun when hunting or fishing, even when bowhunting you can carry a firearm......hmmmmm wonder why?
So did KS, no permit to carry necessary, so long as you have proper documentation of legal huning actually going on. The law is specifically for a defensive weapon, open or concealed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptomyneck View Post
IMO, the only POS in this whole scenario is the cop who arrested the OP's friend. Ruined a man's life for what? Admitting he had a big, scary gun. The pig should be ashamed of himself. But of course we know he won't. He generated revenue so it's all good.
Oh, good!! You're here...

You forgot about the POS's who MADE the laws and the POS's who made the roads only listed for that low speed limit and the POS's that made the vehicle he was in that was capable of performing an illegal act (speeding) and had enough cargo space to hold an illegal weapon.

It's okay, you seem to be new at pointing fingers. Just know, there is much more hate to be shared.

If the LEO was made aware of a felony and most likely didn't have the option of looking the other way.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:35   #90
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Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
Why does rifle hunting make more sense than handgun hunting?
I'm going to answer your question with another question: 'Why do people fight small arms engagements with rifles and carbines rather than handguns?'

Game hunting shouldn't be about sport; it should be about eating, instead. I recently watched one of my neighbors, 'put down' three meat cattle with an assortment of 357 Magnum and 45 ACP pistols. A more gruesome, bloody, prolonged, and needlessly brutal execution of farm animals - who shouldn't have had to die that way - I've never seen!

What is more - not that I'm proud of it, but - I've, probably, killed more fowl and game animals than anyone else on this board! The first time a minister discussed my excessive love of hunting with me I remember telling him, 'Pastor, if there's no hunting in Heaven then I don't want to go there!'

Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

I don't hunt anymore; but if I did it would be with large caliber (probably centerfire) rifles, and 12 gauge (or larger) shotguns. I no longer play with either sport hunting or handguns when they are used for any such purpose. I'm, now, older than that.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:36   #91
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Okay, a thutty-thutty lever gun then.

Should I sling my loaded Winchester/Marlin so that I can bring the handgun into play?
I am convinced you just post to push peoples buttons, you can't possibly be as stupid as you look on this forum. I work with a guy like you, "the sky is blue today Jim"............."no its not its lavender". Same crap everyday, just likes to argrue but everyone thinks hes an idiot.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:43   #92
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The Statist Apologist Doctrine montra here is older than "I bet I know where you got 'dem shoes."

That SOB that did the arresting violated the God given right that was promised to us in the 2nd. You're all in favor of stedfastly enforcing corrupt laws made by corrupt politicians. You Neocons are worse than the Communists. Wake the FU!
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:53   #93
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I have read the responses, and I agree that ignorance of the Ohio law is no excuse. From what I understand, he had just stopped for gas, and gone into the station for some eats. The pistol, which he had on the seat beside him while traveling, was placed under his seat so as not to make his truck the target of a smash and grab. He apparantly failed to remove the pistol from under the seat (which would'nt have helped him under Ohio's law, but would have made carrying the non-concealed handgun legal under his home state's laws).

Anyway, he has been referrred to a local attorney, and hopefully will get the sympathy of the local District Attorney and be able to negotiate a misdemeanor plea with fine. My point was simply that you do have to be familiar with the gun laws (all laws for that matter) when you are traveling to or through other states.

I won't get into the debate about whether you should carry a handgun while hunting with another weapon, but in some situtations, and in some areas it makes perfect sense to me.

Last edited by fowl intent; 10-08-2012 at 10:54..
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:59   #94
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CF,
I'm assuming sarcasm here. Excuse me if I'm wrong, haven't had my coffee yet. I don't know where you live, but if you plan to travel you should realize that different states have different laws. Learn the laws in your own state first. Then expand from there. If you want to live in the wild, you can try borneo or Tanzania, or - well, there is probably nowhere left on this planet that is truly wild. But we live in a society and our society is governed by laws. I enjoyed the "Deadwood" series recently, where laws are just starting to come into play, and it was interesting and a fun show.

The guy was in violation of his own state laws!!! He can't blame it on not knowing about other states' laws.

BUT, and this is a big one, he would have been fine if he had gotten a license. We all get licenses to drive, which seems reasonable, and it isn't completely crazy that we get licenses to carry. In both cases, they may keep some of the wackos off the streets. The state DOES allow him to carry loaded, but he needs to jump through a couple easy hoops, like we all do throughout life.
He lives in a state where you can legally carry a loaded gun in the car...the way it should be in every state.

Sure, we are a nation of laws, but this is a stupid, senseless law that doesnt do anyone any good.

If someone is intent on murder, they dont care about laws and will carry in the car.

The only people who observe the law are people who arent a danger to anyone by having a gun in the car...accept maybe to criminals.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:14   #95
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So I'll sling the loaded rifle that I have in my hand so that I can play gunslinger?

Okay...
"Play gunslinger"? Is that what you do in the woods?????

Getting back to the actual discussion (as opposed to the 'gunslinger' fantasies you seem to harbor), first, most people walking around in arid hill and brush country don't do so with a rifle perpetually held in their hands at "port arms". The rifle is normally slung when walking long distances so that the arms and hands are free to perform other tasks, like clearing a path, reading maps, drinking water, climbing, working binos, etc., etc., etc. - but of course anyone who actually does any sort of back country hiking would already know that...funny that you don't.

Second, as I stated before, when you encounter illegals and worse yet, "coyotes" hailing from MS13 or other gangs with Cartel ties, it's normally a close quarters, surprise situation. Unslinging a bolt-action hunting rifle, chambering a round and bringing it to bear is much more cumbersome and time consuming than simply drawing a handgun.

This is the same reason why most people don't walk around town with a slung rifle and instead opt to carry concealed handguns to deal with a surprise attack situation. Long guns just aren't practical in close quarters, surprise situations, on the street or in brush country - and for all the same reasons.

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:21   #96
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I'm going to answer your question with another question: 'Why do people fight small arms engagements with rifles and carbines rather than handguns?'

Game hunting shouldn't be about sport; it should be about eating, instead. I recently watched one of my neighbors, 'put down' three meat cattle with an assortment of 357 Magnum and 45 ACP pistols. A more gruesome, bloody, prolonged, and needlessly brutal execution of farm animals - who shouldn't have had to die that way - I've never seen!

What is more - not that I'm proud of it, but - I've, probably, killed more fowl and game animals than anyone else on this board! The first time a minister discussed my excessive love of hunting with me I remember telling him, 'Pastor, if there's no hunting in Heaven then I don't want to go there!'

Years later it took an especially knowledgeable Rabbi to explain to me - and prove through Holy Scripture - that all sport hunting is wrong. We are ALL God's creatures; and the taking of any animal's life can only be justified (and forgiven) when that animal is taken as food. No other rationale is acceptable to God.

I don't hunt anymore; but if I did it would be with large caliber (probably centerfire) rifles, and 12 gauge (or larger) shotguns. I no longer play with either sport hunting or handguns when they are used for any such purpose. I'm, now, older than that.
Ok, then it is not handguns that bother you, but sport hunting.

Using your logic, hunting with a rifle is bad too. But if it must be done, the logical conclusion is it should be done over bait to get the animal in close, maybe at night with a spotlight too. Better yet to raise your own animals and kill them at contact distance.

However, the guy making a mess up close with a handgun didn't know what he was doing, so I wouldn't put all handgun users down for that guy's mistakes. Farm animals are not generally slaughtered with .458 magnums.

But back to sport hunting, what is wrong with it? Is it that the animal might briefly suffer? Or is it that the hunter takes pleasure in the experience?

The meat eater takes pleasure in the experience of eating meat, and could instead choose to be vegetarian. So why should the sport hunter not take pleasure in the pursuit, method of killing, and the eventual eating? As we all know, the sport hunter appreciates the wild animals and helps to preserve their habitat, and keep the species thriving.

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:29   #97
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If I were the officer, given the fact he was an out-of-state hunter, I would have given your friend a run down of the law and had him unload, lock it up and be on his way.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:31   #98
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I understand that the guy was in violation of the law, that he should have known better and that he will likely end up in jail.

I had just hoped that the response here on GT would be "Wow, this is terrible what can we do to change the law?" Rather than the Nuremberg defense.

As for the paperwork comment. Remember he was charged with a felony, not a misdemeanor. In my opinion for a felony charge, there should be a victim. But for applying for a CCW licence... OR removing the rounds from the magazine this man did nothing wrong.

He didn't hurt anyone
He didn't threaten anyone
He didn't destroy property
He didn't cause someone injury of any kind.
He didn't trespass


He even announced to the officer the fact he had a pistol for the officer's safety and piece of mind (as per Ohio CCW law).

It is my opinion that people should not be branded as felons over some minor technicality.
The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.


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Old 10-08-2012, 11:34   #99
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The victim is the state of Ohio.

It's not a paperwork mixup, he failed to follow the laws as written by the state of Ohio.


Sent from my PKE meter.
No harm, no foul. Why ruin a guys life for misunderstanding. Clean record and all...
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:38   #100
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Further, what was he charged with?

CCW? Weapons under disability? Improper handling?


Sent from my PKE meter.
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