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Old 10-08-2012, 15:30   #261
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Precisely.

Lots of "conservative" progressives.
The correct term for them is "neo-conservatives" or "neocons". The folks that aren't able to accept that much of the Republican platform is actually inventions of the far left, such a federal drug prohibition and interventionist foreign policy. But hey, wrap it up with some Jesus sprinkled in and a big American flag and suddenly it's conservative!
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:38   #262
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I'm just not caring. I have to take care of patients with real life threatening problems. if you happened to ask them, they would probably prefer that I wasn't a doper.
What if those same patients said they wanted to legally use cannabis as pain medicine or appetite stimulant for their ailments because they think it works? What would you say to them?
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:46   #263
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What if those same patients said they wanted to legally use cannabis as pain medicine or appetite stimulant for their ailments because they think it works? What would you say to them?
I don't know. What would he say to them if they needed a transplant and said they wanted to buy an organ from China from a prisoner?

Stinking laws.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:22   #264
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I don't know. What would he say to them if they needed a transplant and said they wanted to buy an organ from China from a prisoner?

Stinking laws.
I'd rather hear Cav's reply since I asked him.

But for the sake of argument, if there were no organs available for a dying patient, would you have a problem with the patient getting the organ from a Chinese prisoner? Just because something may be against the law doesn't mean the law is just.

In fact, there's an entire legal principle surrounding this question that has been seeing a resurgence, to the chagrin of the justice industry. It's called jury nullification. Jurors have the legal right to decide not only whether a law was broken but whether the law itself should exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jury_nullification

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Old 10-08-2012, 17:04   #265
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We've always had some legal restrictions on who is allowed to own and possess firearms. It's been a constant fight to keep them from encroaching on our liberty, and it always will be...Jefferson warned us to jealously guard our freedoms...but there have always been some restrictions.

I find it hilarious that you equate the RKBA to your imagined right to stayed stoned.

Thankfully, the rest of us can take comfort in the knowledge that there are so few Americans who think that way. Otherwise Ron Paul would have fared better in the primaries.
Jefferson said no free man should be disallowed gun ownership.

The fact that we've accepted restrictions on gun Ownership is a perfect analogy.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:23   #266
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Well that applies to guns too
No, it doesn't. Apples and oranges. There are plenty of legit uses for firearms starting with your own personal safety.

Having LSD around, or heroin does not compare.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:26   #267
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So why was a COTUS amendment required to prohibit alcohol but not a plant?
Because alcohol could and was also being consumed responsibly but it was arguable as to how much trouble it was causing.

LSD, Heroin, not so much. Pretty much clear that's not up for debate. I agree pot is arguable, but the view of it back when was pretty much agreed on by society, though it was inflamed by films like reefer madness.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:37   #268
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Precisely.

Once you lay down and accept the government seizing power it wasn't granted in areas you agree with you have to be prepared to accept it doing the same in areas you don't.

You reap what you sow. The conservatives here who support the WOD deserve to have Obamacare shoved down their throats.
No, they don't. apples and oranges again.

Healthcare is a perfectly legitimate pastime and part of our pursuit of happiness. The .gov has no business regulating it or forcing us to purchase it, John roberts be damned.

HEalthcare is a good thing, no one is against it, we just think the .gov should stay out of it.

Drugs, which are perceived to be and at times demonstrably ARE dangerous in an uncontrolled environment, do deserve restriction in their sale and use in order to provide for public safety. The .gov does has the right to establish an ordered society. Someone that's whacked out on drugs can harm you or your family, and are practially guaranteed to with their dangerous effects…falls under your rights stop where mine begin. Drugs are not the victimless crime some make them out to be.

Guns have legit uses.
Healthcare has legit uses.
Drugs in an uncontrolled environment taken by people NOT ill and not prescribed by a doctor…do NOT have legit uses.

Pretty much why things are the way they are. Don't see the issue here.

Pot I do see in a somewhat grey area, I know people who have enjoyed it responsibly over the years and I've seen folks who made me glad its not legal. Marihoochee is a discussable item, just about all else is not…not heroin, meth, coke, etc.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:42   #269
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Jefferson said no free man should be disallowed gun ownership.
Imagine him saying, no free man should be disbarred from drug use!


And he invented the dumbwaiter so he could get his wine up from the cellar faster. Not like he was stick in the mud ya know?

If you ever visit I'll drive you down to Charlottesville to show you his place. Its a treat.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:03   #270
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Drugs, which are perceived to be and at times demonstrably ARE dangerous in an uncontrolled environment, do deserve restriction in their sale and use in order to provide for public safety. The .gov does has the right to establish an ordered society.
Please point out where the Constitution gives the federal government the right to "provide for public safety" and/or to "establish an ordered society".
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:15   #271
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Please point out where the Constitution gives the federal government the right to "provide for public safety" and/or to "establish an ordered society".
Preamble,

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."


I realize that it may be complicated for you to figure out how public safety and "oredered society' couls possibly be realted to those principles in the preamble. It is probably too abstract for you
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:21   #272
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The Preamble is not law, never mind that it doesn't mean what you are claiming it means. Article I Section 8 is the section that carries the weight of law regarding the limits on federal government. I realize it may be complicated for you to understand that the Preamble has no legal impact but it is true. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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Old 10-08-2012, 20:27   #273
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what a load of stupid, bias crap.

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Old 10-08-2012, 20:28   #274
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The Preamble is not law, never mind that it doesn't mean what you are claiming it means. Article I Section 8 is the section that carries the weight of law regarding the limits on federal government. I realize it may be complicated for you to understand that the Preamble has no legal impact but it is true. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Odd from a Constitutional Libertarian (at least you claimed that once) to dismiss the outlined intentions and priciples the Founders laid down with the preamble, I guess you don't love the Constitution, just the parts that make legalizing weed a possibility.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:32   #275
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The Preamble is not law. It also doesn't mean what you think it means. Are you suggesting the federal government operate based on the Preamble and not Article I Section 8? Look, you don't have any understanding of constitutional law so just save yourself the embarrassment of trying to defend a legally inaccurate statement.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:37   #276
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Hey Countrygun, you got to smoke a lot more dope to understand stuff as much as some people.

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Old 10-08-2012, 20:43   #277
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The Preamble is not law. It also doesn't mean what you think it means. Are you suggesting the federal government operate based on the Preamble and not Article I Section 8? Look, you don't have any understanding of constitutional law so just save yourself the embarrassment of trying to defend a legally inaccurate statement.
Funny YOU of all people trying to exert intellectual superiority, and especaially on Constitutional interpretation. I won't even bother to qiuestion you on the lack of knowledge you have displayed on this very topic in the past.

So, if you want to talk about legally accurate, has the Supreme Court struck down Any of the laws you are talking about, therefore making enforcement of them an illegal act?


Assuming the asnwer is "no" then they DO stand as Laws (you know, legally) ergo, and until SCOTUS says different you are out there with only your interpretation, and no legal leg to stand on.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:46   #278
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No, it doesn't. Apples and oranges. There are plenty of legit uses for firearms starting with your own personal safety.

Having LSD around, or heroin does not compare.
Many believe guns "left unchecked" are a risk to public safety.

If leaving something unchecked is a risk to public safety, is a justification for federal power not granted to it in the COTUS, you have to accept it everywhere.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:49   #279
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Because alcohol could and was also being consumed responsibly but it was arguable as to how much trouble it was causing.

LSD, Heroin, not so much. Pretty much clear that's not up for debate. I agree pot is arguable, but the view of it back when was pretty much agreed on by society, though it was inflamed by films like reefer madness.
Is that the "if it is consumed responsibly" clause of the Constitution?

Cannabis was cultivated here in 1776 and was consumed responsibly.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:58   #280
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Hey Countrygun, you got to smoke a lot more dope to understand stuff as much as some people.

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Gawd, no kidding. "The Constitution makes dope legal but it makes the laws outlawing it legal too, oh man one more bong hit and I'm going upstairs to the kitchen and see I Mom brought the Ho-Hos an Doritos while I figure this out. Man what a bummer"
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