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Old 10-08-2012, 12:56   #21
fredj338
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Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
ADK_ This is a perfect example of choosing wisely who you take advise from on this forum. I know the wise posters, but won't name them for fear of insulting others. Even those wise folks can be guilty of occasional typos however.

Couple the poor advise of using a $22 digital scale AND a typo (or simply a misunderstanding of one's own gear), and you can see where you can simply waste a lot of monies OR have a catastrophic error, depending on how the typo/error/gear misunderstanding works out for you.

The same goes for Internet reload recipes. When you find them, make informed decisions based on cross-checking with published data.
You are a fast learner SARDG.
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Old 10-08-2012, 14:53   #22
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You are a fast learner SARDG.
Someone should have convinced my teachers and professors.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:22   #23
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Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post


OK, point taken. I'm learning a lot, pretty fast!

I just asked a different way in the other thread, but if the chart says .5 cc in the "Lee Dipper" column for 170 gr XTP bullets, is it OK for 165 gr. PLATED bullets?
what powder? If you are using one someone has they could weigh it. But the way they load the dipper would be different from you so would weigh diffrent. I sure hope you are only trying low end loads!

Buy a scale!
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:08   #24
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Gotta get a scale. Should have this already.

I have a number of dippers for pet loads made from trimmed 9mm cases.

Always calibrated. Only re-calibrate with new lot of powder.

Never go out of adjustment.

First charge just as accurate as the last charge.

EASILY HOLD +/- 0.1 grain all day long. Even if using a Harrell measure you better use a scale on each charge if you need better repeatability.

All the Best,
D. White

Last edited by dwhite53; 10-08-2012 at 17:10..
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:46   #25
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I sure hope you are only trying low end loads!
Yeah, minimum starting load on the .45; and on the .40, which called for .6 CC.

BUT after all this, I've decided to give it a rest for a while so I don't do anything impetuous, shop around a bit, and get the rest of the stuff I need, like a scale, reloading manual, pullet buller, etc.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:55   #26
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Ok, so how do you know it's 0.1cc?
THAT I dipped 5 times to fill the .5 cc dipper, as I was grinding it down. Repeated the process several times until I was convinced it was 1/5 the volume of the .5cc plastic one that came with my dies.

My bad, I thought you were talking about measuring out 5 dips to load a case.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:28   #27
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
No it does NOT. No scale under several $500 measures 0.02gr, I am sure you meant 0.2gr, big, big diff. A scale that measure 0.2gr is NOT accurate enough for serious reloading. It's about as useful as dippers. Again, until someone shows me a scale that reapeatedly measures accurate 1/10gr charges w/o shifting zero over months of reloading, for under $100 retail, I am sticking to my original statemtent. You are going to have to spend $100 retail or more for a quality, repeatable dig scale.
No, it DOES. Buy one and get back to me.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:35   #28
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Like what Fred has said many of times there is no digital scale that is any good under $100.00. That scale and many other scales come with calibration weights. Not check weights. Of all the reloading equipment you buy. The reloading scale is not a product that you skimp on.
Luckily my targets dont read this forum. Many a ragged hole will attest to the fact that a Gemini 20 measures to 0.02 grains (thats Zero Point Zero Two Grains) day in and day out. Spend your money any way you like, but if the goal is to measure charges accurately and consistently, spend $22 on a Gemini 20 and compare it to whatever you own before you cast judgment. The site has a 30 day return policy so you have nothing to lose other than preconceptions.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:39   #29
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No, it DOES. Buy one and get back to me.
Yes, the scale reads to 0.02 GRAINS. It also reads to 0.001 grams which is 0.015... gr.

http://www.americanweigh.com/pdf/man...-20_manual.pdf

Nevertheless, I wouldn't use it to measure charges.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_9gor0gy71s_e

I want something with a track record in reloading.

Richard
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:45   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
ADK_ This is a perfect example of choosing wisely who you take advise from on this forum. I know the wise posters, but won't name them for fear of insulting others. Even those wise folks can be guilty of occasional typos however.

Couple the poor advise of using a $22 digital scale AND a typo (or simply a misunderstanding of one's own gear), and you can see where you can simply waste a lot of monies OR have a catastrophic error, depending on how the typo/error/gear misunderstanding works out for you.

The same goes for Internet reload recipes. When you find them, make informed decisions based on cross-checking with published data.
Perhaps you should spend a few minutes doing your own research before you make such statements. Fair enough? Not to mention, a Lee Safety Scale is readily available for $22 and is as accurate as any scale on the market.

An apology would be in order, actually, dont you think?

http://www.americanweigh.com/pdf/man...-20_manual.pdf

page 5

Last edited by tkglazie; 10-08-2012 at 21:04..
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:54   #31
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Yes, the scale reads to 0.02 GRAINS. It also reads to 0.001 grams which is 0.015... gr.

http://www.americanweigh.com/pdf/man...-20_manual.pdf

Nevertheless, I wouldn't use it to measure charges.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_9gor0gy71s_e

I want something with a track record in reloading.

Richard
Use what you like, but if the goal is to put an accurate charge into a case, this scale does it and has for me for almost a year now with one battery change. I compare it regularly to my beam scale and it never disappoints.

I do understand that this is difficult to believe but the results dont lie. For $22, refundable, it would be really easy for anyone to see for themselves.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:07   #32
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No, it DOES. Buy one and get back to me.
SO you are trying to tell me it measures 2/100 of a grain? Maybe someday someone will make a reliable cheap dig scale, not today though. BTW, what are you using to verify said wonder scale??? I am not buying the advert or you response, no disrespect, but until you have had that little gem on & off 100s of times & verified it against cert check wts, you have no idea.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:11   #33
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That's the biggest problem we have in measuring our powder. We relate VOLUME to WEIGHT. If you bump around on the bench, the powder packs down so it is more dense. Then the volume is heavier.

I started out using dippers in the 1960's when an Ohaus 5-10 or 10-10 was beyond my dreams cost wise. I got pretty consistent with dippers but I had no other choice. I had a small quantity of powder, ran the dipper through it then swept off the top with a piece of cardboard. That gave the charge no bumping or packing down.

Now, there are so many options available for digital scales, it's no longer optional to use one. If you like the dippers, heck, keep using them. Just verify your charge weight.

I personally recommend the Lyman 55 powder measure. It has three separate volume chambers so adjustment is very precise. It even has a little hammer installed in the front of the housing to tap a consistent amount for every charge. I have 9 powder measures and the Lyman 55 is the best of all of them.

With pistol powders, the burn rate is so fast that it's easy to get into KB territory. Yes......you must have a scale. Please....

Flash
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:15   #34
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Originally Posted by tkglazie View Post
Luckily my targets dont read this forum. Many a ragged hole will attest to the fact that a Gemini 20 measures to 0.02 grains (thats Zero Point Zero Two Grains) day in and day out. Spend your money any way you like, but if the goal is to measure charges accurately and consistently, spend $22 on a Gemini 20 and compare it to whatever you own before you cast judgment. The site has a 30 day return policy so you have nothing to lose other than preconceptions.
A ragged hole proves nothing of the level of precision that you claim that this scale is capable of. Some powders will do the ragged hole thing with +/- 2 tenths of grains as dispensed through a powder throw.

I would believe that it gives weight readouts in 2/100 grain increments, but I seriously doubt that it is repeatably accurate to that level of precision. Have you ever tested the scale with check weights? I am not talking about calibration weights.

The only way to know is to verify the readings with check weights across a variety of weight ranges. Do you have check weights in hundredths of grain increments? Perhaps some photos with said check weights to prove your point?
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:15   #35
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SO you are trying to tell me it measures 2/100 of a grain? BS. If it says that, it's BS. If you believe that, maybe consider something other than reloading.
Wow. No, it really isnt BS. I sent you the documentation and have described first-hand real world experiences, yet I am the one who needs to reconsider reloading?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are actually some things in this world that are true even if you dont believe them.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:18   #36
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Yes, the scale reads to 0.02 GRAINS. It also reads to 0.001 grams which is 0.015... gr.

http://www.americanweigh.com/pdf/man...-20_manual.pdf

Nevertheless, I wouldn't use it to measure charges.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_9gor0gy71s_e

I want something with a track record in reloading.

Richard
So it will display grains along with grams?

Last edited by dkf; 10-08-2012 at 21:20..
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:21   #37
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A ragged hole proves nothing of the level of precision that you claim that this scale is capable of. Some powders will do the ragged hole thing with +/- 2 tenths of grains as dispensed through a powder throw.

I would believe that it gives weight readouts in 2/100 grain increments, but I seriously doubt that it is repeatably accurate to that level of precision. Have you ever tested the scale with check weights? I am not talking about calibration weights.

The only way to know is to verify the readings with check weights across a variety of weight ranges. Do you have check weights in hundredths of grain increments? Perhaps some photos with said check weights to prove your point?
Lets back up here. A few posts ago I was being questioned (and still have not seen a retraction) about the fact that this scale even MEASURES what I said it measures, and now I am the one who needs to produce photo proof what is already been documented? Even if the scale does close to what it claims it is better than most of the "name brand" scales that start at .1 grain accuracy.

I have yet to weigh a charge or weight on this scale and have it disagree with my Lee Safety Scale (which is good for 1/20th grain, does anyone care to dispute that?)

When I load for my .32 Special (only 20 at a time), I use a dipper to get near 34 grains of H4895 and then use tweezers to drop individual grains until I get to 34.02 (for no other reason than thats the charge I used for the best group with that gun and its as easy to hit one number as another). The scale registers each grain or two as it is dropped.

Jeez, the thing costs just over $20. We all spend more than that on components in a week. Try it out, send it back if you dont like it. But until someone comes to ME with proof that this thing DOESNT do what it says, I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt. What kind of forum do we have here anyway? Check my history, have I NOT been a positive, supportive member here?

Last edited by tkglazie; 10-08-2012 at 21:28..
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:22   #38
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So it will display grains along with grams?
yes, it has a mode button and toggles between several measurements.

for calibration, it uses the 2-weight method using the 2 provided 10gram weights.

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Old 10-08-2012, 21:26   #39
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I went through the docs on the Gemini scale. Excellent scales read to +- .1 grain. Not so hot scales read to +- .2 grain. I strongly suspect a typo error in the specs.

I have a set of check weight standards and I'd sure verify that before I accepted the data in those docs.

Flash
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:29   #40
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I went through the docs on the Gemini scale. Excellent scales read to +- .1 grain. Not so hot scales read to +- .2 grain. I strongly suspect a typo error in the specs.

I have a set of check weight standards and I'd sure verify that before I accepted the data in those docs.

Flash
A typo error in the specs, AND on the unit?

remember- there ARE some concessions when using this unit- primarily its tiny size, the fact that it is battery powered and its very small pan. You will want to use a larger pan on top of the existing one as I mentioned. If you weigh each charge and load a lot, this isnt the scale for you. But for low volume use, or for spot checking volume charges I cant imagine a better value.

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