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Old 10-08-2012, 22:55   #26
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
My roots come from your roots. I am merely part of a grafted in vine. If any Christian says that their faith could have existed without Judaism, they are fooling themselves. Christianity was a reform movement of Judaism.

We share some of the same bible. We know that first lie comes from Genesis:

Genesis 3:4, ""You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

Here we have Lucifer taking the form of a serpent.
That has nothing to do with what I asked.

There are a lot of other faiths besides Christianity and Judaism. They have stories of the supernatural as well. What makes yours true and theirs false?
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-08-2012, 22:58   #27
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I'm a scientist. Sorry, there is no such thing as ghosts. My 4 year old believes in them, but my 9 year old has figured out that it is make-believe.

Likewise, no such thing as angels, faeries (like the tooth fairy), santa claus, the easter bunny, the devil, etc.

All that stuff is cool, and some great story telling was involved, but really folks, it isn't true!!!
well that ends the debate. Ladies and Gentlemen we have a SCIENTIST here! He plainly knows it all about spirituality, religion, etc., don't question him, he is a scientist!

You don't know everything, and a post like you just made proves it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:02   #28
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You guys can believe what you want.

I lived in a house for 16 years that was paranormal "hot". Everything from visuals to voices to shadows to moved objects. Young kids seem to pick up the most. These are children that know no history of the house which ask who is the stranger in the laundry room. Our children saw them. Sometimes they said something. When one particularly nasty spirit showed up, I learned fifteen years later in that my daughter saw it too and dared not mention it. Let's just say, it was something you just hoped would just pass and not focus it's attention on you. Over the years the place seems to act as some sort of travel point. The house is hot to this day.
What makes a house, "hot?" How does one arrive at such a classification? HH
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:03   #29
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That has nothing to do with what I asked.

There are a lot of other faiths besides Christianity and Judaism. They have stories of the supernatural as well. What makes yours true and theirs false?
Well, I pose this question to you. How many of these same religions are perpetually plagued by demonic spirits? How many of them successfully rid themselves of them? I have heard of plenty of missionaries encountering these same said cultures and cleansing whole areas of demonic influence through the power of God.

I have yet to see the converse.
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Last edited by Kingarthurhk; 10-08-2012 at 23:04..
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:06   #30
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Everything you would ever want to know on the subject.

Your welcome!

http://www.godsaidmansaid.com/topic3...244&ItemID=786
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:07   #31
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Well, I pose this question to you. How many of these same religions are perpetually plagued by demonic spirits? How many of them successfully rid themselves of them? I have heard of plenty of missionaries encountering these same said cultures and cleansing whole areas of demonic influence through the power of God.

I have yet to see the converse.
*sigh*

Never mind. There is nothing I can say or show that would get you to understand.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:11   #32
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What makes a house, "hot?" How does one arrive at such a classification? HH
I suppose it is not so different than saying a lady is "hot".
In the sense that, if you looking for a specific measurement, then I'm wasting my time describing it. That said, I'm convinced the implicit understanding of the term is not lost upon the average reader.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:14   #33
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*sigh*

Never mind. There is nothing I can say or show that would get you to understand.
Well, being more specific and elaborating more might be helpful. To be frank, you are being a bit inscrutible, so it is hard to get a grasp on the point you are trying to make. I am not being purposefully obtuse or trying to be disrespectful.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:20   #34
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Well, being more specific and elaborating more might be helpful. To be frank, you are being a bit inscrutible, so it is hard to get a grasp on the point you are trying to make. I am not being purposefully obtuse or trying to be disrespectful.
I dont know what is more direct than "What makes your supernatural claims true and someone elses false...because there are faiths, older than your own, that make the same claims you do...."

The best you have answered so far is "Their supernatural claims are demons...and my(faiths) supernatural powers got rid of them..."

So, what do you say about the Hindu Priest, a faith far older than yours, who is sitting around telling someone "Yes, ghosts are real, I have personal experience with them...."
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

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Old 10-08-2012, 23:24   #35
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I suppose it is not so different than saying a lady is "hot".
In the sense that, if you looking for a specific measurement, then I'm wasting my time describing it. That said, I'm convinced the implicit understanding of the term is not lost upon the average reader.
Again, what makes a location paranormally "hot?" HH
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:26   #36
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I dont know what is more direct than "What makes your supernatural claims true and someone elses false...because there are faiths, older than your own, that make the same claims you do...."

The best you have answered so far is "Their supernatural claims are demons...and my(faiths) supernatural powers got rid of them..."

So, what do you say about the Hindu Priest, a faith far older than yours, who is sitting around telling someone "Yes, ghosts are real, I have personal experience with them...."
I would argue that Hinduism is an old religion, and there are religions that are older than Judaism and Christianity; however, there was once a time on the earth when there was no religion. There were only the Sons of God, and followers of Cain. That all religions have come about as a confusion about what God is, or in direct rebellion to God.

As to Hindiusm specifically, there really isn't much talk about ghosts as there is in reincarnation.

When there is confusion about what God is, or rebellion to God, there evil reigns.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:32   #37
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I would argue that Hinduism is an old religion, and there are religions that are older than Judaism and Christianity; however, there was once a time on the earth when there was no religion. There were only the Sons of God, and followers of Cain. That all religions have come about as a confusion about what God is, or in direct rebellion to God.

As to Hindiusm specifically, there really isn't much talk about ghosts as there is in reincarnation.

When there is confusion about what God is, or rebellion to God, there evil reigns.
I see, you are incapable of looking at this through any lense but your own.

BTW, as is your general flaw anyways, (you assert no matter what the truth is) you obviously dont know much about Hinduism...but that is not going to stop you from making assertions about it.

Oh well, I am going to go back to learning about reincarnation. Which is a normal part of traditional Judaism.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 10-08-2012 at 23:33..
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:34   #38
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...however, there was once a time on the earth when there was no religion. There were only the Sons of God, and followers of Cain.
There are tens of thousands of years of history evident prior to Genesis. HH
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:40   #39
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I see, you are incapable of looking at this through any lense but your own.

BTW, as is your general flaw anyways, (you assert no matter what the truth is) you obviously dont know much about Hinduism...but that is not going to stop you from making assertions about it.

Oh well, I am going to go back to learning about reincarnation. Which is a normal part of traditional Judaism.
Actually, I have studied the world's major religions. I have an okay grasp of Hinduism. The ultimate goal is Moksha, or the state of nonbeing, or the concept of the rain drop being invaded by the ocean. Budhism as a reform movement of Hinduism has a similar concept. All life is suffering, and the ultimate goal is to reincarnate into a state of non-existance. There really isn't mention of ghosts.

Your last comment is confusing, as I really don't know of any form of Judaism that advocates reincarnation.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:48   #40
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Actually, I have studied the world's major religions. I have an okay grasp of Hinduism. The ultimate goal is Moksha, or the state of nonbeing, or the concept of the rain drop being invaded by the ocean. Budhism as a reform movement of Hinduism has a similar concept. All life is suffering, and the ultimate goal is to reincarnate into a state of non-existance. There really isn't mention of ghosts.

Your last comment is confusing, as I really don't know of any form of Judaism that advocates reincarnation.
Again, you dont know as much as you claim. Of course Jews believe in reincarnation. It is a basic tenet of traditional Judaism.

This is Aish. One of the more authoratative. mainstream traditional Jewish sites. Google will bring up plenty of others.

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:51   #41
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I see, you are incapable of looking at this through any lense but your own.

BTW, as is your general flaw anyways, (you assert no matter what the truth is) you obviously dont know much about Hinduism...but that is not going to stop you from making assertions about it.

Oh well, I am going to go back to learning about reincarnation. Which is a normal part of traditional Judaism.
Really? I had no idea. You wouldnt mind giving s short education to a gentile on this subject would you? I really had never heard of reincarnation being related to Judaism.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:54   #42
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Again, you dont know as much as you claim. Of course Jews believe in reincarnation. It is a basic tenet of traditional Judaism.

This is Aish. One of the more authoratative. mainstream traditional Jewish sites. Google will bring up plenty of others.

http://www.aish.com/jl/l/a/48943926.html
Ressurection to eternal life and reincarnation are two distinctly seperate concepts. The concept of reincarnation is that you are born and die through endless cycles until you achieve your ultimate goal.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:55   #43
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Really? I had no idea. You wouldnt mind giving s short education to a gentile on this subject would you? I really had never heard of reincarnation being related to Judaism.
I posted one link, here is another from a mainstream authoritative source.

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/artic...ncarnation.htm
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:57   #44
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Ressurection to eternal life and reincarnation are two distinctly seperate concepts. The concept of reincarnation is that you are born and die through endless cycles until you achieve your ultimate goal.
Did you read the article?

Yes, reincarnation. Being born into this world. Living in this world. Dying. Then, being reborn into this would, and doing it all over and dying again. It doesnt have to be YOUR version of what reincarnation is (endless cycles, ultimate goals...) It can be just two or three times. Judaism is what it is, no matter what you think it should be.

The ressurection of the dead is also a traditional Jewish concept. So is reincarnation. They are not the same thing.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

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Old 10-09-2012, 00:01   #45
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I posted one link, here is another from a mainstream authoritative source.

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/artic...ncarnation.htm
Thats pretty interesting. You can learn something every day if you just take the time. Thanks for the free education tonite Rabbi!
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Old 10-09-2012, 00:24   #46
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...I don't believe in them, but I do believe the great deceiver, and I don't wish to fool with the likes of him or his minions.
Why does somebody always gotta bring Obama into every thread?!?
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:22   #47
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My only experience...

I once moved out of a rented house because I believed it was haunted.
It was a temporary house we rented due to my company relocating me.
It was located in a traditional middle class neighborhood build in the 1980s.
I first noticed that my dog was acting different. He would bark while inside the house for no reason. (No one at the door – no strange noises, etc.)

My wife grew to hate the house and became afraid about staying alone there.

I’m cutting this real short to ease reading about this.

I was still traveling a lot at work and didn’t spend that much time at home…
When I did I had a recliner in the living room I used to take a nap after the long commute.
Several times while I was relaxing in my recliner in the evening I would smell this horrible whiff of something I can only describe as a dead smell and at the same time see something like a fog moving across the room out of the corner of my eyes.

One day my wife was sitting on our porch when two boys walked by. My little dog barked at them and my wife heard them call him a bad name. She wanted to let them know he was really friendly and tried to introduce him to the boys. She called them over and they made friends with our dog. (Miniature Schnauzer) In the conversation they said that our house was where two people died in the garage.

I checked it out and found that a husband had killed his wife and then killed himself by running his car in the closed garage.

I broke our lease and moved out the next week. I lost a months rent but was glad to get out of there.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:34   #48
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I'm a scientist. Sorry, there is no such thing as ghosts. My 4 year old believes in them, but my 9 year old has figured out that it is make-believe.

Likewise, no such thing as angels, faeries (like the tooth fairy), santa claus, the easter bunny, the devil, etc.

All that stuff is cool, and some great story telling was involved, but really folks, it isn't true!!!

You are less than 90 years old, and this earth is how old? This country in which you live was "discovered" in a time span at least six times your existence on earth.

EVERYTHING that you know has been taught to you. You were not born able to speak, to rationalize, to retain memories. Someone had to nurture you thru-out your formative years, assist you in walking, clean you, teach you the most basic and fundamental of things,

And here you are, a short 60 (if that much) years later on earth proclaiming to know it all, as it applies to religion.


I am not religious, and I'm VERY skeptical of the claims made by mainstream religions.

My wife is a devout Pentecostal Christian. She has been a Christian for over a decade. After a few minutes of earnest prayer it is very easy for her to begin "speaking in tongues". After a few days/weeks/months of being tired of this crap I decided to record what she was saying.

What I discovered were snippets and sometimes long recognizable strings of Aramaic, Vietnamese, African languages, German, some form of Cantonese, a strain of a language from Polynesia, etc etc. - never all at the same time, typically only one or two languages per instance.

The lady barely knows 5 words in French, 2 in Latin and maybe a 1/2 dozen in Spanish, and has no prior experience nor exposure to those languages (not thru TV, neighbors, etc). Where are these languages being unlocked from?

-----------

I distinctly remember one night after midnight she jumped up in bed and was pointing her hand like a gun off into space. I could not get her back in bed, and could not get her hand down...and was frankly (a frequent occurrence for me) worried that our apartment neighbors would hear and think I was assaulting her. For 5-8 minutes she continued to holler and shout with words I could not understand. Then she collapses, is crying and praying then goes back to sleep.

The next morning my step son's dad calls us to tell us a bunch of guys were chasing another guy in a gun battle the night before - at the same time my wife was going nuts. There was a running gun battle thru their house, they had to take cover behind a fridge, which got shot up. The timing of these two events and her actions (from a deep sleep) are too much of a perfect coincidence to be a coincidence, so as with what was stated above, I keep an open mind.


So... I am a skeptic of religion, but I keep an open mind that there are things science have not yet been able to define.

- G
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:21   #49
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Yeah, just what we need, armed people that believe in ghosts. That's more scary to me than any ghost story.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:37   #50
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I wonder if The Great Pumpkin is one of Gozer the Traveler's pre-chosen forms...
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