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Old 10-08-2012, 16:17   #61
barth
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
A Glock 17 or a Glock 23? Either would accompany my .30-06. Maybe use it if I was presented a shot under 20 yards.
Neither.
Personally I wouldn't consider anything less than a 357 mag or a 10mm for deer.

44 mag would be my handgun caliber of choice for close range work.
They hit something like a 30 30 carbine close up.

Last edited by barth; 10-08-2012 at 16:17..
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:22   #62
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The argument about taking large game with a 9mm makes about as much sense as hunting one with a Jennings .25 I suppose it holds still enough, that round can probably kill most things, right?

The point, is whenever possible to make a clean kill. Causing needless suffering is not about sportsmanship, or the sign of a good hunter.
My point is that no one thinks twice about using a bow and arrow, but using a .40 caliber handgun makes you an inhumane sob. If a 20 gram arrow at 315 fps can kill a deer, a 180 grain XTP at 1000 fps will too.

A poacher can kill a deer with a .22LR. I'm not advocating the handgun as a pirmary weapon. It's for short range applications. Im not pulling it the G23 for a 55 yard broadside shot.
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:35   #63
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
My point is that no one thinks twice about using a bow and arrow, but using a .40 caliber handgun makes you an inhumane sob. If a 20 gram arrow at 315 fps can kill a deer, a 180 grain XTP at 1000 fps will too.

A poacher can kill a deer with a .22LR. I'm not advocating the handgun as a pirmary weapon. It's for short range applications. Im not pulling it the G23 for a 55 yard broadside shot.
A poacher can take one by shooting it through the eye with a .22lr. I know, because my grandfather kept food on the table durring the Depression that way. However, it isn't the Depression. Adeqauate hunting weapons and ammo are not outrageously expensive and available.

The smallest semi-auto I would take for a broadside shot to a deer would be a 10mm. At least you are getting .41 caliber ballistics, especially if it is loaded properly.

But, there is no way I would consider taking my G17 out and popping rounds at deer.

I am actually hoping to try my hand at my scoped .454 casull this year.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:00   #64
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Neither.
Personally I wouldn't consider anything less than a 357 mag or a 10mm for deer.

44 mag would be my handgun caliber of choice for close range work.
They hit something like a 30 30 carbine close up.
A 9mm loaded to full potential isn't too far behind a .357 Mag out of weapons with similar barrel lengths. Underwood is hitting 1300 fps from a G19 with 124 gold dots. Not too far from .357 mag velocity from a 4 inch gun.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:12   #65
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IME the .41 mag gets the job done well when loaded down a bit with a 210-220 Gn KSWC. I go for 1,200 fps and it is good to as far as any hangun in my hands, which puts a t a 10mm in the ballpark, with a 200 gn so for me they are a wash. Ironically I have to handload the .41 down and the 10 up from common factory loads.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:18   #66
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
A 9mm loaded to full potential isn't too far behind a .357 Mag out of weapons with similar barrel lengths. Underwood is hitting 1300 fps from a G19 with 124 gold dots. Not too far from .357 mag velocity from a 4 inch gun.
I've shot hot 9mm. I own a Smith 686 .357 magnum. The two aren't even comparible.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:31   #67
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I've shot hot 9mm. I own a Smith 686 .357 magnum. The two aren't even comparible.
Have you put them over a chronograph? What's the barrel length of your 686?
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:49   #68
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Have you put them over a chronograph? What's the barrel length of your 686?
4" barrel. It kicks plenty with a full house load. You know you shot something. Again, nothing like a hot 9mm.

A .22lr and a .223 travel at pretty fast FPS, but I wouldn't take them grizzly bear hunting either.
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Old 10-09-2012, 00:18   #69
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4" barrel. It kicks plenty with a full house load. You know you shot something. Again, nothing like a hot 9mm.

A .22lr and a .223 travel at pretty fast FPS, but I wouldn't take them grizzly bear hunting either.
Obviously not. The bullet construction is all wrong.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:57   #70
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Obviously not. The bullet construction is all wrong.
Exactly. That is why hunting a deer with a 9mm is absurd.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:25   #71
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Exactly. That is why hunting a deer with a 9mm is absurd.
Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.

Last edited by Yankee2718; 10-09-2012 at 07:27..
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:47   #72
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Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.
So true. I use my G17 for quieter finishing shots
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:56   #73
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Carrying a G17 would be a PITA. Too big so it will just get in the way. You really want to lug a full size Glock 17, with your bow and gear, while dragging a dead deer out of the woods?

.40S&W is a better caliber for woods walking and hunting. Personally I have a G27 and a Walther PPS in .40 that I use when out in the woods. The G23 should do you just fine.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:13   #74
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Carrying a G17 would be a PITA. Too big so it will just get in the way. You really want to lug a full size Glock 17, with your bow and gear, while dragging a dead deer out of the woods?

.40S&W is a better caliber for woods walking and hunting. Personally I have a G27 and a Walther PPS in .40 that I use when out in the woods. The G23 should do you just fine.
A 32-ounce handgun wouldn't be too much of a burden.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:43   #75
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A 32-ounce handgun wouldn't be too much of a burden.
The loaded weight between the G17 and G23 is not much. The G23 is only an ounce lighter.

The PITA is the size. A full size service pistol needs to be carried on the hip, and it will just get in the way when your gutting and hauling. Compacts and subcompacts are just more comfortable to carry.

G17 Length 8.03" , height 5.43"

G23 Length 7.3", Height 5.00"

Last edited by Bilbo Bagins; 10-09-2012 at 09:43..
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:53   #76
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The G23 does carry easier than the G17. Still debating. The whole debate may prove to be a moot point if I can't find the time to go this year. I think I will though.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:22   #77
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The G23 does carry easier than the G17. Still debating. The whole debate may prove to be a moot point if I can't find the time to go this year. I think I will though.
That's right. A G23 weighs several ounces less than a G17.
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:19   #78
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
Have you seen what modern pistol bullets will withstand? XTP bullets are tough. The modern bonded bullets hold together well too. Deer are thin skinned game. I think it's Winchester that is making .223 ammo for deer now. A 9mm pistol bullet is plenty tough enough to penetrate to vital organs in the accepted performance window of the cartridge.

If a 9mm can punch through a windshield or car door and still make 12 inches in gel, I think it'll work on a deer with no armor.
So I guess this means you'll be shooting deer with a .22 now?
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:24   #79
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So I guess this means you'll be shooting deer with a .22 now?
Now you're just being ridiculous.
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Old 10-09-2012, 16:24   #80
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So I guess this means you'll be shooting deer with a .22 now?
Ruger .22 Pistol vs Car door - YouTube
Notice how he said it can go through a wind shield or car door (which you highlighted) AND penetrate 12" in gel?

Can you not read well or is it hard for you to keep things in perspective? Seems to be both.
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