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Old 10-08-2012, 12:07   #101
countrygun
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
Of course, it wouldn't be a scandal if they hadn't lied.



Yet this only seems to come up when people do not like the numbers. Obama is president, unemployment goes down = numbers must be rigged. Obama is president, unemployment goes up = numbers are gospel.

If the numbers were rigged, why didn't they bring the unemployment down below 8% a long time ago when he promised the stimulus would do this?

When you pick and choose whether or not you believe the numbers based on your political party affiliation, you lose all credibility. The numbers are either real or they aren't, and that applies to all administrations. If Romney wins the election, I bet you'll see most of the posters in this thread quoting the falling unemployment rate as an indication of his success (and they'd be right). However, myself and 1 or 2 other people in this thread will be the only ones who can effectively do that without looking like a hypocrite - because our position on the unemployment rate is consistent irrespective of who is in office.



So you define a liberal as someone who does not believe there is a massive conspiracy surrounding the unemployment rate? That's a new one. Apparently your political repertoire only goes as far as "if you disagree with me, you're a liberal!"



No, I accept them because your conspiracy theory is filled with holes and contradictions, as are all conspiracy theories. There is no consistency in your argument, unless you're claiming that the unemployment rate has been a conspiracy since its inception - but I've yet to see a single person say that. They only have a problem with it when it suits their agenda. Oddly enough, these will be the first people to laugh and mock liberals 2 years from now when the far left refuses to accept that unemployment went down under Romney. Mark my words.



You're attempting to draw equivalencies between singular events that are specific to one administration. The unemployment rate has been calculated by the same department for many, many years across many administrations - this is one of the fundamental reasons that your theory does not make sense.

I am at least willing to admit that many Administrations may have bent the numbers when it suited them and this is just an example.

what is so difficult to grasp about that?
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:46   #102
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Well, having worked for Republican and Democratic administrations, I have to admit that what I have seen (and, embarrassingly, been forced to participate in a few times), has made me believe that manipulating numbers for political reasons has been much more prevelent under Democrats.

I'll give you a good example of lying, but telling the truth. At the agency I worked at, at the time, Clinton announced that he had authorized the hring of and additional 2000 special agents. And, it was absolutely true. He had. But, the budget he submitted for us, before and after that, did not include one penny for the salaries of these special agents, so none were hired. But, he did authorize them to be hired.

I find it laughable that anyone with any real world experience thinks there is not ten different ways to fudge any government statistic.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:59   #103
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Just wait, those will be adjusted down soon...

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Old 10-08-2012, 13:01   #104
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Well, having worked for Republican and Democratic administrations, I have to admit that what I have seen (and, embarrassingly, been forced to participate in a few times), has made me believe that manipulating numbers for political reasons has been much more prevelent under Democrats.

I'll give you a good example of lying, but telling the truth. At the agency I worked at, at the time, Clinton announced that he had authorized the hring of and additional 2000 special agents. And, it was absolutely true. He had. But, the budget he submitted for us, before and after that, did not include one penny for the salaries of these special agents, so none were hired. But, he did authorize them to be hired.

I find it laughable that anyone with any real world experience thinks there is not ten different ways to fudge any government statistic.

The shrt time I was on "the public payroll" i can remember helping submit a budget that included the categories of "Essential services" and "Non-essential services". the boss turned it back to us explaining that it was "crunchtime" ant non-essential services had to be cut. We cut the Non-e and transferred the loss int o now "essential services" and our budget flew through.

In the case of employment stats for instance, there are categories, basically for "voluntary part-time" (those who only want to work part time) and involuntary part time (those who want to work more and are therefore "underemployed"). All you have to do is a bit of juggling and the "Underemployed" are no happy part-timers, and as "fully employed" as they want to be.

Just drop the word to the people asking the questions to phrase them the right way.

It also helps when the Government picks up more employees too.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:16   #105
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Nothing more than a monumental all out failed attempt at an October surprise.

Pink unicorns and marshmallow trees perpetrated by Barry's disciples.
Ooooo The buzzin of the bees in the cigarette trees
The soda water fountains
And the lemonade springs
Where the blubird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

The bulldogs all have rubber teeth
The streams flow milk and honey
A man can sleep the day away
and there ain't no need for money
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:34   #106
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I am at least willing to admit that many Administrations may have bent the numbers when it suited them and this is just an example.
If that's your position, then that is perfectly reasonable (although I don't agree with it).

However, when it plays out in the mind of a republican, this thinking usually turns into those "many" administrations you mentioned as being all of the liberal ones, and the opposite would be true for a democrat who abides by this mentality. So this person who is sometimes skeptical of the numbers can just turn out to be a partisan that trusts or distrusts the numbers whenever it makes their party look good. I find that to be the case most of the time, but there are always exceptions.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:12   #107
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If that's your position, then that is perfectly reasonable (although I don't agree with it).

However, when it plays out in the mind of a republican, this thinking usually turns into those "many" administrations you mentioned as being all of the liberal ones, and the opposite would be true for a democrat who abides by this mentality. So this person who is sometimes skeptical of the numbers can just turn out to be a partisan that trusts or distrusts the numbers whenever it makes their party look good. I find that to be the case most of the time, but there are always exceptions.
Since the day, as a teenager, I realized how the stats we gathered and measured I have never placed any faith in their accuracy no matter which party was in power. they may reflect a trend and be a small corner of the whole picture, But, IMO less than a 1.5% change is "withing the margin of manipulation", even of the incomplete picture they represent.
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Old 10-09-2012, 15:12   #108
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I was trying to figure out how someone with an IQ above room temp. could rationalize how the addition of 114,000 jobs could drop the rate .3 %.

I did graduate from UGA where math was secondary, but c'mon my grandchildren could figure this out.
Doing the math in reverse, doesn't this equate to a grand total of 38,000,000 "employable" peeps in the workforce? If so, how can the numbers be right?
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Old 10-09-2012, 15:13   #109
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TERM LIMITS NOW!!!

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Old 10-09-2012, 15:23   #110
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Stupid iPhone.
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TERM LIMITS NOW!!!

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