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Old 10-17-2012, 14:01   #1
Peace Warrior
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The Holy Bible is both historically and scientifically correct.

To the cowards from the other thread... here it is...


THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time please.

Thanks.
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:17   #2
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You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.

Scientifically: C'mon, we know for a fact the earth and all of its life did not come to being in 6 days. Even you have to admit that. And before you start... no one is going to claim that perhaps evolution or anything relating to an old Earth is how God brought creation about. Your book doesn't say that, your book says 6 days... and it's wrong.

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 10-17-2012 at 14:22..
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:30   #3
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The Herod Quirinius thing is also a prime example of contradiction.

Next, if you take into account the generations put forth in the bible plus a generous 6,000 years for creation (you know the whole passage about a day being a thousand years to God blah blah blah... which by the way is naturally inconsistent) (also being generous assuming some of those early generations did have life spans in the hundreds of years) the Bible presents a world history of about 10,000 to 16,000 years to present. We also know is this absolutely false. We have fossil records that blow this out of the water.

Also there is no evidence of a global flood. So Noah's tale is not what it claims to be either.

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Old 10-17-2012, 14:43   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.
...
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 10-17-2012 at 14:44..
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
I'm waiting...
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.
I'm the coward yet you are the one threatening to take your ball and go home...

Quote:
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice.
This is something a coward says. You're already making plans of how to wiggle out of this. You'll just ignore people who's posts you don't like rather than engaging them head on.
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:54   #7
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Well, you got balls. I'll give you that. I won't be able to participate in this thread as much as I would like this evening as I have two graduate level mid-terms coming up (Mangerial Accounting and Statistical Analysis). I will point out that you threw the gauntlet down on both history and scientific accuracy, so you will be dealing with multiple topics at the same time.

I'll start with history.

[Edit: I see Glock36Shooter already raised this one.]

Supposedly, jesus was born during an empire wide census ordered by Caeser Augustus and carried out by local Roman governor Quirinius. This was also supposedly during the time of Herod the Great's rule. The problem is that Herod the Great died about ten years before Quirinius carried out the (local) census. Those two things couldn't have happened at the same time and if Herod was not king at the time then there could not have been a "massacre of the innocents" in Bethlehem. If Herod was king then the Quirinius's census wasn't happening and there would not have been a reason for Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem.

The census itself is problematic because there is no record of Caesar Augustus ever ordering an empire wide census. Quirinius's census was local only. It also introduces another problem as there would not have been a Roman census under Herod's rule because Herod would have collected his own taxes and paid tribute to Rome himself. Not until after his death did Rome step in and start collecting taxes in the region directly.

As for science.

Quote:
The angel walked a bit and stood in a narrow place where the donkey wouldn't be able to turn at all. When the donkey saw the angel, she fell down. This made Balaam so mad that he hit the donkey with a stick.
Then God made the donkey talk and she said, "What did I do to you to make you hit me three times?"
Balaam answered, "You teased me! I wish I had a sword so I could kill you."
The donkey said, "Aren't I your donkey which you rode ever since I was yours? Did I ever want to ride you?"
"Well, no," said Balaam.
Then God let Balaam see the angel standing in the road with a sword. Balaam bowed his head and fell flat on his face.
The angel said, "Why did you hit your donkey three times? Look, I was trying to stop you because you weren't doing what I wanted you to do. Your donkey saw me and got you out of the way. If she hadn't, I would have killed you and let her live."

Numbers 22:26-32
Enough said.
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
To the cowards from the other thread... here it is...


THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time please.

Thanks.
Quote:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be submissive, as also says the law.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Silence rib.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
It's my thread. Play by the rules, or get ignored. Your choice. You had every opportunity to create a thread, but were too cowardly to do so.

So I reiterate- THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time[, otherwise, screw you].
Oh my, we are becoming upset aren't we? You'll do much better in life if you realize that you just can't dicate rules to other people. I know that runs contrary to your theistic worldview, but that worldview is archaic and obsolete anyway and you'd be better off without it.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:04   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.
Imagine the logistics of that. Everyone has to stop what they're doing and walk to the city of their births to register for a census. What if they didn't? How would anyone know? Wouldn't it have been simpler and more accurate to have local officials count the people in the cities where they lived. The census story is obviously made up to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:05   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
... Supposedly, jesus was born during an empire wide census ordered by Caeser Augustus and carried out by local Roman governor Quirinius. This was also supposedly during the time of Herod the Great's rule. The problem is that Herod the Great died about ten years before Quirinius carried out the (local) census. Those two things couldn't have happened at the same time and if Herod was not king at the time then there could not have been a "massacre of the innocents" in Bethlehem. If Herod was king then the Quirinius's census wasn't happening and there would not have been a reason for Joseph and Mary to travel to Bethlehem.

The census itself is problematic because there is not record of Caesar Augustus ever ordering an empire wide census. Quirinius's census was a local only. It also introduces another problem as there would not have been a Roman census under Herod's rule because Herod would have collected his own taxes and paid tribute to Rome himself. Not until after his death did Rome step in and start collecting taxes in the region directly. ...
Quirinius may have twice ruled over/governed Syria, once around 7 BC and then again once more around around 7 AD, which this supposition is wholly supported by certain other inscriptions from that timeline.

Simply put, Luke's word pròtos is in recollection of the first census in 7 BC, rather than the one you are referring to which took place in 7 AD.

Anymore supposed problems?
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:10   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
To the cowards from the other thread... here it is...


THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time please.

Thanks.
Are you planning on having a discussion or will you be following past practice and simply declaring things true and refusing to consider or address any evidence to the contrary?
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:11   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Imagine the logistics of that. Everyone has to stop what they're doing and walk to the city of their births to register for a census. What if they didn't? How would anyone know? Wouldn't it have been simpler and more accurate to have local officials count the people in the cities where they lived. The census story is obviously made up to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
More so than that... it is obvious that whoever wrote it... was not an actual witness. Not just to the birth of christ... but to the times themselves.

It'd be like me writing of the time when the terrorists crahsed planes into the towers... when Reagan was president and Smashing Pumpkins just released Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. You would question if I was even around during this time in history.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:12   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Quirinius may have twice ruled over/governed Syria, once around 7 BC and then again once more around around 7 AD, which this supposition is wholly supported by certain other inscriptions from that timeline.

Simply put, Luke's word pròtos is in recollection of the first census in 7 BC, rather than the one you are referring to which took place in 7 AD.

Anymore supposed problems?
Well, you hadn't even addressed all the problems presented in the first post, but on this point you are mistaken. From 12-1BC, Quirinius was leading a military campaign in Galatia (modern day Turkey).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirinius

Quote:
From 12 - 1 BC, he led a campaign against the Homonadenses, a tribe based in the mountainous region of Galatia and Cilicia, around 5 – 3 BC, probably as legate of Galatia. He won by reducing their strongholds and starving out the defenders. For this victory, he was awarded a triumph and elected as duumvir by the colony of Pisidian Antioch.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:23   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Quirinius may have twice ruled over/governed Syria, once around 7 BC and then again once more around around 7 AD, which this supposition is wholly supported by certain other inscriptions from that timeline.
What evidence is there for the earlier term as governor of Syria? How do you reconcile this supposed term with his known presence in Galatia during the last decade BCE?
Quote:
Simply put, Luke's word pròtos is in recollection of the first census in 7 BC, rather than the one you are referring to which took place in 7 AD.
What evidence is there for such a census? Is there any record of a census being taken in Palestine in 7 BCE, as there is for the one in 7 CE? Is there any record of people being required to return to their ancestral homes, as the Bible claims, in either 7 BCE or 7 CE?
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:32   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Quirinius may have twice ruled over/governed Syria, once around 7 BC and then again once more around around 7 AD

No he didn't. Varus was governor of Syria up until Herod's death. Quirinuis was a politician for many years. But he did not become governor of Syria until AFTER Herod's death.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:45   #17
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Internal contradictions:

Quote:
So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:5)
Quote:
With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out... (Acts 1:18)
and...

Quote:
Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah." (2 Samuel 24:1)
Quote:
Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. (1 Chronicles 21:1)
and...

Quote:
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he said this, he breathed his last. (Luke 23:46)
Quote:
When he received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:30)
and...

Quote:
So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him. (1 Samuel 17:50)
Quote:
Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite (2 Samuel 21:19)
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:46   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
No he didn't. Varus was governor of Syria up until Herod's death. Quirinuis was a politician for many years. But he did not become governor of Syria until AFTER Herod's death.
And it's hard to be governor of Syria when you are busy fighting a war in Turkey.
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:49   #19
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
You don't get to make rules.

One example of each.

Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong.

Scientifically: C'mon, we know for a fact the earth and all of its life did not come to being in 6 days. Even you have to admit that. And before you start... no one is going to claim that perhaps evolution or anything relating to an old Earth is how God brought creation about. Your book doesn't say that, your book says 6 days... and it's wrong.
I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
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Old 10-17-2012, 15:57   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booker View Post
I just did a search of the KJV and this guy Quirinius is not mentioned. Not even in Luke!

http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksea...qs_version=KJV
We know from other historically valid sources that it was Quirinius that conducted the census that the bible refers to as being the reason for Joseph and Mary going to Bethlehem.

Census of Quirinius
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