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Old 10-20-2012, 14:28   #141
Buckshot Barry
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I just realized I performed 1 other item before this last BTF test.

Round count was at 200 and I detail cleaned the grooves in the slide where the slide rails travel. I didn't care if I removed any copper lube, I just wanted them spotless. Needless to say, a lot of black came off on the cleaning patch.

I wonder if it was buildup from the new top finish Glock is using on the slides. Could that be slowing the slides down enough for BTF?

Last edited by Buckshot Barry; 10-20-2012 at 14:30..
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Old 10-20-2012, 14:28   #142
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Originally Posted by Beretta92guy View Post
this is what pisses me off to no end......

you spend $$$$$$ on your gun/ammo and it starts with BTF, you send it off to get it "fixed", spend more $$$$$$$$$$ on ammo only to find out after ANOTHER 500 rounds its doing the same damn thing........

do what i did, sell that POS and buy a XD, MP, Sig, Beretta, or whatever and quit spending money on these damn glocks.....

you will be a lot happier, at least i am!!!!!
Just wondering, If you don't own or shoot a GLOCK, why do you even post on this forum ?
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Old 10-20-2012, 14:36   #143
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Originally Posted by Beretta92guy View Post
this is what pisses me off to no end......

you spend $$$$$$ on your gun/ammo and it starts with BTF, you send it off to get it "fixed", spend more $$$$$$$$$$ on ammo only to find out after ANOTHER 500 rounds its doing the same damn thing........

do what i did, sell that POS and buy a XD, MP, Sig, Beretta, or whatever and quit spending money on these damn glocks.....

you will be a lot happier, at least i am!!!!!
I will always be a Glock fan, I own gen3's that run like a fine watch. I am going to stay with this till it is fixed or replaced. Principle, and I like the Gen4 Grip now that I am getting used to it.
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Old 10-20-2012, 14:37   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Smoked casings are caused by a light load that does not obturate the brass in the chamber completely. Commonplace with crappy range ammo. If you're getting brass to the face you need to improve your grip & shooting style & perhaps use better ammo. If you care to waste your time then wade through the ignorant threads on "BTF" posted by people who are either totally incompetent with a handgun or merely some FNG with little proper training.

With all due respect fellas, now knowing what causes cases to be "smoked" shows to me that you are not seasoned shooters. Go take a lesson from someone who is and you will be another in the millions of happy & satisfied Glock users.

Since one of the members made me aware of the ignore list option, it's made my visits here so much more enjoyable.
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Old 10-20-2012, 15:04   #145
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Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
Glock sent me a "dipped" extractor as a replacement that did nothing for me. I ordered the non dipped part through Glockparts.com

Just trying to help you out as I went down the road you're on already.

Good luck.
what is the difference between a dipped extratcor and a non dipped extractor? how do you tell the difference on the glockparts inventory? thanks
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Old 10-20-2012, 17:17   #146
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Originally Posted by Tallyglock View Post
...l. I was told the pistol could not be fixed and I was being sent a new 21SF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Smoked casings are caused by a light load that does not obturate the brass in the chamber completely. Commonplace with crappy range ammo. If you're getting brass to the face you need to improve your grip & shooting style & perhaps use better ammo. If you care to waste your time then wade through the ignorant threads on "BTF" posted by people who are either totally incompetent with a handgun or merely some FNG with little proper training.

With all due respect fellas, now knowing what causes cases to be "smoked" shows to me that you are not seasoned shooters. Go take a lesson from someone who is and you will be another in the millions of happy & satisfied Glock users.
And you even quoted his post in your reply. I own a few Glocks and some other guns too so I am glad I do not have to be so blindly loyal that I refuse to admit there might actually be an issue now and then that is neither shooter nor ammunition related. Out of curiosity why do you suppose Glock elected to replace the gun?
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:30   #147
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I wonder: Has anyone gone in and looked at measurements and angles of the frame, slide, barrel, etc. with a gunsmith / engineer's eye? We often hear talk about that with 1911s, etc. but here we seem to have solely concentrated on replacement of small parts. What I mean is, is there the possibility that newer Glocks are somehow "out of spec" in some critical area (or areas) and nothing we do with small parts will truly solve the problem?
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:28   #148
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There have been some suggestions that there might be a sporadic issue with the slide. And one does have to wonder why would Glock need to replace an entire gun as opposed to put a new extractor or a new spring or a new whatever in it.
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Old 10-21-2012, 14:06   #149
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It just really seems to me that there are far too many complaints for this to be simply a small part issue. Sure, they may contribute, but by now enough users have made enough replacements without solving the problem that I believe it must be deeper. Rather than blindly defend Glock's old reputation, and flame users for supposed grip or ammo failings, we should look at the real mechanical issue. I too have older Glocks that I cannot make malfunction, even with crap ammo, filth, or by holding the gun upside down with only thumb and trigger finger. Something must be out of whack - call it tolerance stacking, bad QC, worn out dies, etc. Replacing an extractor or prescribing certain ammo is like telling you to get softer tissues when you have the flu to cure your chafed nose.
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Old 10-21-2012, 15:02   #150
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Originally Posted by Buckshot Barry View Post
Range Report 10/20/2012

Haven't received the 30274 ejector that I ordered 2 days ago, so took the Gen 3 19, TTL***, to the range with the load bearing / spring, safety plunger / spring, extractor from my 2005 G17.

After 100 rounds, 50 Blazer aluminum and 50 Win NATO, I had no BTF and all cases ejected to the right. Next is to add the original load bearing / spring back. I think it's the original non-dipped extractor causing BTF's. Testing will tell.
Range Report 10/21/2012

Put another 100 rounds of Blazer Brass 115's through the Gen 3 19 today. All performed flawlessly. Test was a litte different today. I shot the first 5 rounds, a brand new shooter fired the last 95. I have 12 of those shots on video.

YES, I KNOW HE ALMOST TOOK HIS OFF HAND THUMB OFF. THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED


Last edited by Buckshot Barry; 10-21-2012 at 15:04..
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Old 10-21-2012, 20:30   #151
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Fire Medic, thanks for the extractor help.
Went to the range today with 100 rds and the gun performed much better with the new extractor. Only one round brushed the right side of my head and one ejection was at 5 oclock that i noticed. There was also a jam with tula ammo with the 33 round magazine so I wont necessarily blame the gun on that one. But thanks. I fully endorse the non dipped non chamber indicator extractor.

Oddly enough, The non chamber indicator extractor makes it much easier for me to tell if there was a round chambered or not haha silly glock.
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:34   #152
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Originally Posted by crimdelacrim View Post
Fire Medic, thanks for the extractor help.
Went to the range today with 100 rds and the gun performed much better with the new extractor. Only one round brushed the right side of my head and one ejection was at 5 oclock that i noticed. There was also a jam with tula ammo with the 33 round magazine so I wont necessarily blame the gun on that one. But thanks. I fully endorse the non dipped non chamber indicator extractor.

Oddly enough, The non chamber indicator extractor makes it much easier for me to tell if there was a round chambered or not haha silly glock.
No sweat brother glad I could help.

I put another 200 rounds through mine this week with no BTF issues, and I was testing my new SL threaded barrel, waiting for my 9MM Osprey to get out of ATF jail, but it's gonna be a fw months still.

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Old 10-27-2012, 17:20   #153
Buckshot Barry
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Originally Posted by Buckshot Barry View Post
I just realized I performed 1 other item before this last BTF test.

Round count was at 200 and I detail cleaned the grooves in the slide where the slide rails travel. I didn't care if I removed any copper lube, I just wanted them spotless. Needless to say, a lot of black came off on the cleaning patch.

I wonder if it was buildup from the new top finish Glock is using on the slides. Could that be slowing the slides down enough for BTF?
I've now got 300 rounds down range with no BTF. The last 100 rounds is the 19 all original except for the 2005 G17 extractor and slide groove detail cleaning. Even shot 50 rounds of Fed Champion with no BTF.

Last edited by Buckshot Barry; 10-27-2012 at 17:27..
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Old 10-28-2012, 00:02   #154
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Originally Posted by Buckshot Barry View Post
I just realized I performed 1 other item before this last BTF test.

Round count was at 200 and I detail cleaned the grooves in the slide where the slide rails travel. I didn't care if I removed any copper lube, I just wanted them spotless. Needless to say, a lot of black came off on the cleaning patch.

I wonder if it was buildup from the new top finish Glock is using on the slides. Could that be slowing the slides down enough for BTF?
I just woke my neighbor up laughing ...

Is BTF "brass to face" lmfao I haven't had a belly laugh like this in a long time
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:10   #155
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I bought one Glock G19 and went through two GEN3's (one a replacement gun by Glock) in the "P" range. Both could not be fixed. Glock replaced each one with GEN4 G19's. First one worked for 800 rounds before problems returned. Second replacement was picked for me by Mr. Mike Murphy. Promised it would work.
It did for 2000 rounds and started back. Tried the HRED, non-dipped old style extractor, two LWD extractors, all the fixes everyone has tried. Between replacement parts, ammo spent trying to feel confident in the gun, the shipping hassles, amd so on I finally gave up.
I really liked the smaller grip of the GEN4. It was super accurate. Glock really tried to bend over backwards to get me ne that would work and stay working. Some of the fixes helped for awhile. Others made it worse. It is not just one problems.
Rather they say it or not they have tried 4-5 different RSA's, different ejectors, now different extractors. Some guns are fixed by one of these changes or aftermarket parts. If Glock had solved the problem they would be sending out a specific fix for each gun. The fact they are still working on a solution shows:
a.) They don't know what the problem is.
b.) They know but it is too expensive to fix whatever the change in frame/slide or whatever is. So they are throwing parts at it.
c.) Or their are multiple problems which are unique to each gun and require changing different parts on different guns to get it right.
d.) Fact some of the guns simply can't be made right and are replaced. If they cant make them right an they replace them they either know they are really messed up and can't be fixed. Or they can't figure out how to fix it.
By the time you spend money in parts, ammo, etc. trying to fix it you're starting to get close to the price of the gun.
Many of us just got sick of it. Randy Lee warned his extractor would not solve all the Glocks problems. Proably most. But as at least one poster said it didn't work for him. So you can keep dumping money into the gun, get replacement guns, and so on. And not be sure ar a certain round count it will poop out. or you can:
a.) Get a S&W M&P 9c. Add the APEX trigger and have one of the finest carry guns made. Which I did. IF you look around you can find the M&P 9c's for $465.00. The trigger kit for $80.00. And still come in lower than a new GEN4 G19.
b.) Get a Walther PPQ which has a fine trigger out of the box. And mine has over 3000 trouble free rounds through it. M&P about the same.
c.) Look for a GEN 2 Or early model GEN 3 Glock and be good to go.
All are better answers than the current mess.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:28   #156
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a.) Get a S&W M&P 9c. Add the APEX trigger and have one of the finest carry guns made. Which I did. IF you look around you can find the M&P 9c's for $465.00. The trigger kit for $80.00. And still come in lower than a new GEN4 G19.
I for one will not touch another M&P in 9MM until they sort out the issues they're having. I LOVE my (2) M&P 45 pistols and they are super accurate, but the 9MM I use to own was giving me issues, I sent it to smith and they just returned it with a note saying "in spec" they did nothing to fix the issues I was having. There's a reason you see so many for sale, but of course the sellers always say they're in perfect condition. Right now at this point in time there are (2) 9MM pistols I would not buy used (manufactured in the last (2) years):
1) Glock
2) S&W M&P

And I would have to think heavily about adding a new one in 9MM as well, which I have not.

Are all of them problematic, nope. But the issues exist, and after having a sample of (1) from each manufacturer in the 9MM caliber with issues, it's enough for me to sit back and watch what happens.
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Old 10-28-2012, 15:46   #157
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I for one will not touch another M&P in 9MM until they sort out the issues they're having. I LOVE my (2) M&P 45 pistols and they are super accurate, but the 9MM I use to own was giving me issues, I sent it to smith and they just returned it with a note saying "in spec" they did nothing to fix the issues I was having. There's a reason you see so many for sale, but of course the sellers always say they're in perfect condition. Right now at this point in time there are (2) 9MM pistols I would not buy used (manufactured in the last (2) years):
1) Glock
2) S&W M&P

And I would have to think heavily about adding a new one in 9MM as well, which I have not.

Are all of them problematic, nope. But the issues exist, and after having a sample of (1) from each manufacturer in the 9MM caliber with issues, it's enough for me to sit back and watch what happens.
At least the M&P's "problems" don't launch flaming hot shells at their owners face.
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Old 10-28-2012, 17:40   #158
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What specific M&P problems?
Denis

Not looking for an argument, just curious.
My gunsmith owed me some money, I had a Gen 4 17 ordered on it, the talk here & no idea on deliverability killed the Gen 4 for me, picking up a .40 M&P to go with the one I already have tomorrow.
The one I have (about a year old) has been fine.
What am I missing?

Last edited by DPris; 10-28-2012 at 18:12.. Reason: Add
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Old 10-28-2012, 18:19   #159
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Read the sticky at the beginning of this forum. This info will solve your problem. It is a simple fix . Not the giant, huge, mystical, elusive, frustrating, tramatic deal that some fanatic forum jockeys lead you to believe it is.
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Old 10-28-2012, 18:40   #160
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TNP,
If that was a response to me, I read part of the thread you referenced, not going to read all the pages.
Been following this one & it seems there's no guaranteed fix.

I'm no Glock hater, I have five 17s. Earliest 1988, latest three Third Gens were 2009.
Been through the armorer's class, carried them on duty, and privately.

The nice thing about Glocks in the past is that it WASN'T necessary to file on this, swap that out, replace the other thing, return to the factory, and fiddle with a mix of parts, to get them to function.

In the past, you could buy one, swap the plastic sights for steel, and that's it. They worked. No fiddling, no chasing down parts, no mix & match. No brass in the face.
Didn't have to keep swapping extractors around till one worked.

I'll keep my five 17s, they're fine.
For the moment, it appears the Gen 4s are too erratic for me to risk my money on.
Hence the M&P. I was owed money, tried for a Gen 4 Glock on it, no availability, many reports of problems, Gen 4 outa the picture for now.
Maybe re-visit in a year or so, but right now I'm just not willing to put that much effort & frustration into a Gen 4.

A 1911, I'll chase down the right parts & spend another grand on after the buy.
A Glock I simply won't.
Didn't used to need to do anything but sights & a Glock sock to be perfectly viable.
Denis
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