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Old 11-05-2012, 12:08   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
The squaring yourself to the target shooting stand stems from GIs and SWAT teams who have body armor on and willing to take a hit so that they can return fire on soft targets who aren't similarly armored.
And, well, it's easier to simultaneously move when you are facing the target
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:20   #222
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Originally Posted by Warp View Post
And, well, it's easier to simultaneously move when you are facing the target
Some people prefer to haul ass from one cover to another instead of trying to walk and shoot at the same time.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:21   #223
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If at longer distances going prone or finding makeshift support is good but at practical distances for civilian use squaring up is more than just for taking advantage of a ballistic vest. With all your training you should know this.



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My training is about putting hits on targets while hiding behind covers and concealments instead of standing out in the open. I'm old school.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:26   #224
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From a long range, scoped bolt rifle or gas gun, we train to use a standing unsupported with a bladed stance as described previously. In reality, if we have time to blade and get in a good standing unsupported position, generally time, distance and often cover or concealment are on our side. But in reality, if I have all of that going for me, I will probably find some other type of supported position to fire from.

On the bladed squared up thing, squared up was not primarily developed around presentation of body armor but it was and advantage as opposed to the open side panel area. Just to add a few other bonuses other than what was mentioned....Better to manage recoil for speed and accuracy of follow up shots. Opens up your field of view, downrange and peripheral views providing a larger field of fire to not only the front but to both sides / left and right flank. Also square to the target if I get hit in one lung bad news. Bladed and I get hit in 2 lungs and the heart. Game over. Of course in real life dynamic things are constantly evolving so there really is no perfect situation.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:32   #225
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Some people prefer to haul ass from one cover to another instead of trying to walk and shoot at the same time.
Some people understand that having cover available is not guaranteed.

Some people understand that in the real world you might be better off shooting back right now, while going for said cover, rather than waiting to return fire.

I am sorry to hear that you have never been trained in how to both shoot and move.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:37   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
Some people understand that having cover available is not guaranteed.
That's why God invented the prone shooting positions.

Quote:
Some people understand that in the real world you might be better off shooting back right now, while going for said cover, rather than waiting to return fire.
It's called fire and maneuver. Not walking about and make yourself a pretty target.

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I am sorry to hear that you have never been trained in how to both shoot and move.
I'm sorry to hear that you've never been trained on how to close with and destroy the enemy with shock and violence. It's an infantry thang. Or at least it used to be.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:42   #227
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That's why God invented the prone shooting positions.



It's called fire and maneuver. Not walking about and make yourself a pretty target.



I'm sorry to hear that you've never been trained on how to close with and destroy the enemy with shock and violence. It's an infantry thang. Or at least it used to be.
...because receiving training in doing one thing automatically and necessarily means no training was ever received in doing anything else.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:14   #228
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...because receiving training in doing one thing automatically and necessarily means no training was ever received in doing anything else.
I don't know. You tell me. You seem to like that standing around getting shot at technique.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:24   #229
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Prone works great as does the bladed, elbow on the hip when face to face.

I know I sometimes get going and momentarily swerve out of my lane but damn if this isn't itching for a 20 car pile-up.

fnfal, Shock and violence? I think you have the phrases shock and awe and violence of action mixed up.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:29   #230
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Prone works great as does the bladed, elbow on the hip when face to face.

I know I sometimes get going and momentarily swerve out of my lane but damn if this isn't itching for a 20 car pile-up.

fnfal, Shock and violence? I think you have the phrases shock and awe and violence of action mixed up.
Get things mixed up and confused?

Nevar!
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:28   #231
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Shoot!!! while moveing ....to cover! The whole idea is to not let the BG have an easy target to aim at...period!
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:03   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
Prone works great as does the bladed, elbow on the hip when face to face.

I know I sometimes get going and momentarily swerve out of my lane but damn if this isn't itching for a 20 car pile-up.

fnfal, Shock and violence? I think you have the phrases shock and awe and violence of action mixed up.
Shock and awe is your generation.

And I don't know about you but face-to-face, it'd be all about fixed bayonets and buttstrokes. Of course it's hard to do any of that when equipped with a cute lil thang that's 20" long from tip to tail.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:49   #233
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WOW did this thread go way off course! Okay fellas fight nice and tell me what fixed rear sight you recommend.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:13   #234
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:36   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Shock and awe is your generation.

And I don't know about you but face-to-face, it'd be all about fixed bayonets and buttstrokes. Of course it's hard to do any of that when equipped with a cute lil thang that's 20" long from tip to tail.
Because that's super efficient. Right? Hold up, time out, let me affix this bayonet. I could simply shoot you but... well that would make to much sense.


DDs fixed rear.


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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24   #236
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Shoot!!! while moveing ....to cover! The whole idea is to not let the BG have an easy target to aim at...period!

I agree 100%. The main rule of gunfighting is don't get shot! If we lose focus on that main objective and make the occurance about the other guy, he may take us with him when we send him to the other side.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:27   #237
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WOW did this thread go way off course! Okay fellas fight nice and tell me what fixed rear sight you recommend.

I like MBUS because once the fundamentals are mastered with irons, fundamentals should be transfered to using an optic.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:08   #238
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I just would like to say, the members here that have adopted the newer CQB training should really lay off forcing that system down the throats of members that didn't. Remember, some people here just like to shoot.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:48   #239
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I just would like to say, the members here that have adopted the newer CQB training should really lay off forcing that system down the throats of members that didn't. Remember, some people here just like to shoot.
Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. The issue is some of the people who "learned" techniques that have been replaced try to pass that information off as relevant. Some know better because they are aware of newer more relevant techniques.

There is also the issue of those trying to pass off inept techniques based on what they heard arguing w/ those sharing what they know works based on first hand experience and indepth trainging.

Things change as developments are made. This is good. Becoming stagnant, bad. In the tradition of "Shock and Violence," Adapt and Overcome.
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Old 11-07-2012, 14:15   #240
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Nobody is forcing anything on anyone. The issue is some of the people who "learned" techniques that have been replaced try to pass that information off as relevant. Some know better because they are aware of newer more relevant techniques.

There is also the issue of those trying to pass off inept techniques based on what they heard arguing w/ those sharing what they know works based on first hand experience and indepth trainging.

Things change as developments are made. This is good. Becoming stagnant, bad. In the tradition of "Shock and Violence," Adapt and Overcome.
Longstanding fundamental marksmanship techniques have not been replaced, nor have any new basic marksmanship techniques been adopted. All of the effective rifle marksmanship techniques discussed in this thread have been in both the US Army Basic Rifle Training program and the NRA Basic Rifle Course for over 100 years.


Some rifle handling techniques have changed to keep up with changes in how rifles are loaded. CBQ techniques have been used by our military since General Washington hand picked some men to take out the Hessians in the guard houses at Trenton. Free arm standing was not developed recently for CQB. It was developed for taking quick shots at game in heavily wooded areas and adapted for CQB over 200 years ago.
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