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Old 11-07-2012, 16:08   #26
Flying-Dutchman
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This is the calm before the storm. We do not yet know the true ramifications of Obama Care but it will be far worse than we think.

Usually nothing happens but occasionally there are bursts of great change and we will experience drastic change soon.

We have experienced a long period of prosperity we personally didn't fight for and now it will be taken from us because we are complacent.

It was naive to think we could push back Obama Care as Socialism is a ratchet that only tightens.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:14   #27
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So, those of us who vote on principal because we actually have morals and stand for something, should stop? Yeah, OK.

See, some people actually stand for something, and won't change their value system just to win a contest. Whether or not other people agree has no relationship as to what is right and what is wrong.

You're a part time cop. I'm sure you see people doing bad things all the time, but make excuses for it. Should we accept their excuses, simply because they believe a different way? Legality aside, since most states allow for wide discretion among misdemeanor offenses - simply because a subset of the population "believes" a position is moral, when it obviously is not - we shouldnt arrest them?

Yeah - you go with that moral relativism. Personally, I'll stick with my morals, and vote for what is right. My ethics are worth a bit more than an ultimately meaningless contest. I have to look at myself in the mirror every day, and have to answer to not only my family, but God. I've done enough bad things that I have to answer for - I don't need to add to the list.

But, you go ahead with pretending its OK to change your morals in order to win a contest. I don't have to answer for you.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:14   #28
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Originally Posted by Flying-Dutchman View Post
This is the calm before the storm. We do not yet know the true ramifications of Obama Care but it will be far worse than we think.

Usually nothing happens but occasionally there are bursts of great change and we will experience drastic change soon.

We have experienced a long period of prosperity we personally didn't fight for and now it will be taken from us because we are complacent.

It was naive to think we could push back Obama Care as Socialism is a ratchet that only tightens.
Socialism is a noose that only tightens.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:15   #29
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Heard on an AM talk show this morning: Its hard not to vote for Santa Claus. Alot of people did.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:21   #30
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you are right, a storm is brewing, predicted by some jewish carpenter several centuries ago.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:25   #31
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One side says you have to work for what you have. The other side says, we'll give it to you and BTW the rich aren't paying thier fair share - that's why you don't/won't have it.

It's really not much more complicated than that.
It is a bit more complicated than that, the "issues", people's "sacred cow" is how many on the left voted, despite otherwise right of center principles. Abortion, gay marriage, marijuana and immigration, many voted on one of those single issues, almost no one voted for Romney on those issues, a great many voted for Obama based on one of those issues.

This is why I've been saying the religious right is dead, libertarian ideals are what the republican platform needs (and discussing issues) and we'll win, pure and simple.
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:28   #32
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So, those of us who vote on principal because we actually have morals and stand for something, should stop? Yeah, OK.

See, some people actually stand for something, and won't change their value system just to win a contest. Whether or not other people agree has no relationship as to what is right and what is wrong.

You're a part time cop. I'm sure you see people doing bad things all the time, but make excuses for it. Should we accept their excuses, simply because they believe a different way? Legality aside, since most states allow for wide discretion among misdemeanor offenses - simply because a subset of the population "believes" a position is moral, when it obviously is not - we shouldnt arrest them?

Yeah - you go with that moral relativism. Personally, I'll stick with my morals, and vote for what is right. My ethics are worth a bit more than an ultimately meaningless contest. I have to look at myself in the mirror every day, and have to answer to not only my family, but God. I've done enough bad things that I have to answer for - I don't need to add to the list.

But, you go ahead with pretending its OK to change your morals in order to win a contest. I don't have to answer for you.
It's not a meaningless contest. While you're looking at yourself in the mirror with pride while contemplating your principled vote , the decisions these people, politicians -Democrats and Republicans, make through appointments and legislation affect not only your life, but your family's as well. Legislation passed from how much money you can take home to your medical decisions has direct consequences. 1% of the popular vote doesn't amount to much, when there's no representation.
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Last edited by 427; 11-07-2012 at 16:32..
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Old 11-07-2012, 16:47   #33
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Good post Rabbi, but, as was said, the signal was clear last night. America prefers utopia, despite the cost.

There are generations of these people who think alike.

The republic may not be dead yet, but it took a hard hit again last night.
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Old 11-07-2012, 17:57   #34
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I am not going to quote each of you....but a lot of you keep saying (a lot of people everywhere, not just here) That the "dems are the party of (insert some group of people you dont like....)"

By saying that, you have missed the problem.

Yes, the dems do indeed have a base made up of the "gimme gimme" types....but that is not enough to elect them.

Once again, it is the moderate or the guy who is even on the right for a lot of things who sees the Republicans as the real enemy of freedom. (again, examples include women, gays, minorities and many others)

They have a point. Not all of them are "gimme gimme" folks and that creamy middle is what decides elections, not the extremes of each party that is easy to hate.

Folks, STOP just STOP deciding what the other guy is and hating on him for it. A lot of them have a point and is likely to vote YOUR way if you would stop endorsing a "you cant be that" or "we dont like that" political party.

If I was a gay it would be real hard to vote Republican, even if I agreed with much of what they stand for....but put yourself in their shoes for just a second. What good are the "good" policies of the Republican party if they Fng hate you and will use the law to oppress you?

The world is not as simple as sound bites on TV. Many of you would vote us into the stone age if it meant you get to keep your guns (yes you would) Well, open your mind for just a second and realize a lot of reasonable people feel the same way about a lot of other issues. Issues the Democrats are inclusive of while the Republicans exclude.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

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Last edited by Rabbi; 11-07-2012 at 17:58..
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:31   #35
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If I was a gay it would be real hard to vote Republican, even if I agreed with much of what they stand for....but put yourself in their shoes for just a second. What good are the "good" policies of the Republican party if they Fng hate you and will use the law to oppress you?
what laws do Republicans use to oppress gays?
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:41   #36
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what laws do Republicans use to oppress gays?
For one, DOMA. Bob Barr....(R) Don Nickles (R)



1996 Republican Party platform endorsed DOMA.

Bush proposed a constitutional amendment.

Yes, Clinton signed it...but he has backed down and Obama flat out wont enforce it.

There are simply so many examples. The other side of that is, it doesnt matter if it is real or imagined. Are you really going to say the Republicans are NOT the party agains gays?

They are, even if only a little. It doesnt matter how many Republicans arent or how little it is....they are and lose votes (and look damned stupid) because of it.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:47   #37
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Because you and I cant stand him....doesnt change the fact he is a stone cold winner. Oh, that upsets me to no end, but it is still true.
Fine - scorched earth then. Last night the US became a nation of retards and cartoon watchers. Last nights result was like your neighbour's septic tank breaking due to his stupidity and flooding your living room with turds.

We DON'T unite behind this socialist scumbag - not unless you want to look like France and Greece and the plethora of other leftist basket cases.

Hit the vermin where you can personally:

* I've already cancelled any payroll type charitable contributions and will be making no more. Sorry you want to take my stuff, can't afford you.

* Email/phone/write letters or communicate with the Southern governors to withdraw all electrical tech support from the North-East. They played us, let'em starve and freeze to death. They played us, well, fine, we can put our people to good use on our own territory.

* Eliminate leftist organizations from those you do business
with. I've already reduced my Comcast to the bare minimum. When I told the rep I said "I might come back when Comcast drains the swamp at MSNBC." there was alot of sputtering at the end of the line.

* No aid whatsover to anyone who is a leftist. No social arrangements, no help of any kind - they are the enemy, not your friends and voted to destroy you. Let'em starve.

* No business where possible with union oriented enterprises
Thats obvious.

* No association with the leftist press - you can get enough truthful information online with contributing to the profitability
of basically terrorist propaganda organizations that helped throw the election to zero.

* On the GOP side, there has to be a relentless probing of this criminal administration's actions in Benghazi, Solyandra, Fast & Furious etc. Develop articles of impeachment, deliver them to the Senate where of course they will lapse - but they WILL get published. And again..and again. This is a criminal regime that gets Americans killed, destroys our credibility overseas, seeks to establish an alien / Socialist system. They have to be fought ever step of the way.

Its all just pinpricks - but 1000 pinpricks draws ALOT of blood.
This leftist scumbag only bested us in the popular vote by A couple of points, leaving enough furious people with a determined mindset that could hurt him and his minions of vermin.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:50   #38
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It is a bit more complicated than that, the "issues", people's "sacred cow" is how many on the left voted, despite otherwise right of center principles. Abortion, gay marriage, marijuana and immigration, many voted on one of those single issues, almost no one voted for Romney on those issues, a great many voted for Obama based on one of those issues.

This is why I've been saying the religious right is dead, libertarian ideals are what the republican platform needs (and discussing issues) and we'll win, pure and simple.
exactly but unfortunately the religious right will kick and scream until the bitter end and will probably take the ship down with them.
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:51   #39
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Fine - scorched earth then. Last night the US became a nation of retards and cartoon watchers. Last nights result was like your neighbour's septic tank breaking due to his stupidity and flooding your living room with turds.

We DON'T unite behind this socialist scumbag - not unless you want to look like France and Greece and the plethora of other leftist basket cases.

Hit the vermin where you can personally:

* I've already cancelled any payroll type charitable contributions and will be making no more. Sorry you want to take my stuff, can't afford you.

* Email/phone/write letters or communicate with the Southern governors to withdraw all electrical tech support from the North-East. They played us, let'em starve and freeze to death. They played us, well, fine, we can put our people to good use on our own territory.

* Eliminate leftist organizations from those you do business
with. I've already reduced my Comcast to the bare minimum. When I told the rep I said "I might come back when Comcast drains the swamp at MSNBC." there was alot of sputtering at the end of the line.

* No aid whatsover to anyone who is a leftist. No social arrangements, no help of any kind - they are the enemy, not your friends and voted to destroy you. Let'em starve.

* No business where possible with union oriented enterprises
Thats obvious.

* No association with the leftist press - you can get enough truthful information online with contributing to the profitability
of basically terrorist propaganda organizations that helped throw the election to zero.

* On the GOP side, there has to be a relentless probing of this criminal administration's actions in Benghazi, Solyandra, Fast & Furious etc. Develop articles of impeachment, deliver them to the Senate where of course they will lapse - but they WILL get published. And again..and again. This is a criminal regime that gets Americans killed, destroys our credibility overseas, seeks to establish an alien / Socialist system. They have to be fought ever step of the way.

Its all just pinpricks - but 1000 pinpricks draws ALOT of blood.
This leftist scumbag only bested us in the popular vote by A couple of points, leaving enough furious people with a determined mindset that could hurt him and his minions of vermin.
Ok. I dont have a problem with that. You have a course of action. Not quite all the things I would do or how I would do them, but I do agree with the concept of 1000 pinpricks.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:52   #40
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exactly but unfortunately the religious right will kick and scream until the bitter end and will probably take the ship down with them.
It sure seems like that is what they are doing.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 18:57   #41
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For one, DOMA. Bob Barr....(R) Don Nickles (R)



1996 Republican Party platform endorsed DOMA.

Bush proposed a constitutional amendment.

Yes, Clinton signed it...but he has backed down and Obama flat out wont enforce it.

There are simply so many examples. The other side of that is, it doesnt matter if it is real or imagined. Are you really going to say the Republicans are NOT the party agains gays?

They are, even if only a little. It doesnt matter how many Republicans arent or how little it is....they are and lose votes (and look damned stupid) because of it.
I'd have to do a little research to be certain, but I'd BET that quite a few Dems voted for DOMA as well. You say reality doesn't matter. how do you fight that kind of insanity?

same thing with the dems spending hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising vilifying Romney. By almost any measure, he's a decent, caring, brilliant man. but the reality doesn't matter (I'm agreeing with you)

I guess you could argue immigration laws in the same vein as your DOMA example....Congress passed those laws decades ago (again, probably a Democrat-controlled body...remember, they had near complete control for DECADES before Newt's "take-over"). But because Republicans want to enforce the laws, they are the bad guys. why not fling open the border and enjoy the benefits of all those votes?

and we could probably garner a lot of the prison population vote by letting them out, too. don't laugh...Dems want to restore their voting rights. evil republicans are generally against that (those repressive bassturds)

Last edited by canis latrans; 11-07-2012 at 19:10..
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:08   #42
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I believe you are right, Rabbi, when you say that most folks are center-right. However ,they are center right in behavior.

Regarding DOMA, I believe that most polls show overwhelming support for it?

Sure, people vote 'issues'. But it's their emotions talking. That's why the more experienced the person(older) the more likely he is going to vote Republican. Obama catered to emotions with lies and half truths. emotions are very important to his constituency.

This President has done nothing yet he got re-elected. Emotions at work.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:11   #43
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I believe you are right, Rabbi, when you say that most folks are center-right. However ,they are center right in behavior.

Regarding DOMA, I believe that most polls show overwhelming support for it?

Sure, people vote 'issues'. But it's their emotions talking. That's why the more experienced the person(older) the more likely he is going to vote Republican. Obama catered to emotions with lies and half truths. emotions are very important to his constituency.

This President has done nothing yet he got re-elected. Emotions at work.
Of course he did lots of things to get re-elected...the proof is...he got re-elected.

You (a lot of people) have to stop thinking about this with their logic. It didnt work....did it?

Play the game as it is, not as you want it to be. That is the only way to win.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:12   #44
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So, those of us who vote on principal because we actually have morals and stand for something, should stop? Yeah, OK.

See, some people actually stand for something, and won't change their value system just to win a contest. Whether or not other people agree has no relationship as to what is right and what is wrong.

Right now across the world a Taliban member or a Saudi Morals Police officer is thinking the same thing.

Julius Sthreicher would admire your adherence to the hardline.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:15   #45
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I'd have to do a little research to be certain, but I'd BET that quite a few Dems voted for DOMA as well. You say reality doesn't matter. how do you fight that kind of insanity?

same thing with the dems spending hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising vilifying Romney. By almost any measure, he's a decent, caring, brilliant man. but the reality doesn't matter (I'm agreeing with you)

I guess you could argue immigration laws in the same vein as your DOMA example....Congress passed those laws decades ago (again, probably a Democrat-controlled body...remember, they had near complete control for DECADES before Newt's "take-over"). But because Republicans want to enforce the laws, they are the bad guys. why not fling open the border and enjoy the benefits of all those votes?

and we could probably garner a lot of the prison population vote by letting them out, too. don't laugh...Dems want to restore their voting rights. evil republicans are generally against that (those repressive bassturds)
Listen, it doesnt matter (to a point of course)what it right or wrong if you want to win...and lets be honest, with a lot of this we are talking about a subjective right or wrong....a point lost on alot of people....is it actually wrong to open the borders? No matter what side of that we are on, it is subjective. Let that sink in.

So there is the question. Do we go for the win or do we keep making point....that we continue to be able to do nothing about?

See, the Dems pander to as many people as they can to get elected. Then, they do their dem things AFTER they are elected, even if it screws the people they pandered to.

The Republicans, they tend to cut people out before election day. Yeah, you do get a little more of "what you see is what you get." but that doesnt tend to work as well.

Adapt or die.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 11-07-2012 at 19:17..
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:18   #46
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It is an old cliche but people really need to understand...

People wont often remember what you said but they will remember how you made them feel.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 11-07-2012 at 19:18..
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:20   #47
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Play the game as it is, not as you want it to be. That is the only way to win.
how often do we listen when the dems say "oh, you better not be mean to us during the campaign....the moderates don't like it when you're mean"?

then they turn around and use that very tactic against us, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of advertising.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:25   #48
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how often do we listen when the dems say "oh, you better not be mean to us during the campaign....the moderates don't like it when you're mean"?

then they turn around and use that very tactic against us, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of advertising.
Do you honestly expect a contest such as this to be easy?

No matter what choices you are or want to make, there are forces opposed to that.

Good luck.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 11-07-2012 at 19:25..
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:25   #49
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Listen, it doesnt matter (....is it actually wrong to open the borders? No matter what side of that we are on, it is subjective. Let that sink in.

Adapt or die.
it IS the law, no?

is it actually wrong to rob a bank?
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:28   #50
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Do you honestly expect a contest such as this to be easy?

No matter what choices you are or want to make, there are forces opposed to that.
we are all too often victims of our own principles, perhaps in more ways than one

Last edited by canis latrans; 11-07-2012 at 19:29..
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