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Old 11-07-2012, 19:30   #51
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Originally Posted by canis latrans View Post
it IS the law, no?

is it actually wrong to rob a bank?
You are making non sequitur leaps. Dont do that if you actually want to understand this issue.

Lots of things are the law that a lot of people dont want to be the law. They are, no matter which side of it you may be on, subjective. Robbing banks is not one of those things nor is it a campaign issue anywhere.

But things like drugs, immigration, gay marriage and the like are.

Most everyone agrees it is wrong to rob a bank. Less than half of people think it is wrong to smoke a joint in Colorado. Again, no matter how you feel about it, it makes sense that most people would agree on one and a lot of people would not agree on the other.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:31   #52
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During the 1950's, the Republican party thought they had to become more Democrat like, due to reeling under FDR and then Harry Truman. Demo Lite in other words.
Given enough time and enough rope however, the Democrats self imploded in the 1960's. After the Great Society which was another boondoggle give away program, they stumbled into Vietnam and escalated that War. They lost the White house twice after that fiasco, and other then the doofus Jimmy Carter went on to win again and again, and again until 1992.
The Republicans don't need to become like the democrats. No one can predict the future. The Democrats under Obama may well get very careless (as if they aren't right now) and make the same blunders again. Ushering Republicans back to prominence.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:36   #53
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we are all too often victims of our own principles, perhaps in more ways than one
Of course. Inflexible people do not often do very well. They may very well be right...but they are not often going to succeed. Prisons are filled with inflexible people. Teams often are not.

Every man has to make the choice what end of that he is going to fall on. I understand that but the results are going to be what they are.

You can do everything right and still fail but I would offer that many people who "stand on their principles" (not all but many) are actually hiding behind them more than standing on them. The results speak for themselves in most cases.

There is a reasonable test to see if a person is standing on them or behind them. It isnt perfect but I think most people will see the value in it....Do your principles dictate more of what you wont do or what you will do?

Of course almost all principles have both negative and positive aspects (what you can and cant do) but do you use the "Cans" to make a difference...or do you use the "Cants" to stand your ground on what you dont have to do. (or hold against others who do those things)
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

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Old 11-07-2012, 19:38   #54
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I am not going to quote each of you....but a lot of you keep saying (a lot of people everywhere, not just here) That the "dems are the party of (insert some group of people you dont like....)"

By saying that, you have missed the problem.

Yes, the dems do indeed have a base made up of the "gimme gimme" types....but that is not enough to elect them.

Once again, it is the moderate or the guy who is even on the right for a lot of things who sees the Republicans as the real enemy of freedom. (again, examples include women, gays, minorities and many others)

They have a point. Not all of them are "gimme gimme" folks and that creamy middle is what decides elections, not the extremes of each party that is easy to hate.

Folks, STOP just STOP deciding what the other guy is and hating on him for it. A lot of them have a point and is likely to vote YOUR way if you would stop endorsing a "you cant be that" or "we dont like that" political party.

If I was a gay it would be real hard to vote Republican, even if I agreed with much of what they stand for....but put yourself in their shoes for just a second. What good are the "good" policies of the Republican party if they Fng hate you and will use the law to oppress you?

The world is not as simple as sound bites on TV. Many of you would vote us into the stone age if it meant you get to keep your guns (yes you would) Well, open your mind for just a second and realize a lot of reasonable people feel the same way about a lot of other issues. Issues the Democrats are inclusive of while the Republicans exclude.
Every republican minority or woman politician is a target for the left. They aren't minority enough, or something. In the beginning, some on the left thought Obama wasn't black enough or down with the struggle.

Republicans have reached out are reaching out. Have you seen the diverse group Republicans? I'm willing to bet that there are more Republican Hispanics serving than Democrats.

They look for and want people "like me". I'm considered a minority. I despise the identity politics played by the Dems. I want no part.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:39   #55
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During the 1950's, the Republican party thought they had to become more Democrat like, due to reeling under FDR and then Harry Truman. Demo Lite in other words.
Given enough time and enough rope however, the Democrats self imploded in the 1960's. After the Great Society which was another boondoggle give away program, they stumbled into Vietnam and escalated that War. They lost the White house twice after that fiasco, and other then the doofus Jimmy Carter went on to win again and again, and again until 1992.
The Republicans don't need to become like the democrats. No one can predict the future. The Democrats under Obama may well get very careless (as if they aren't right now) and make the same blunders again. Ushering Republicans back to prominence.
The same demographic from those eras is not the same demographic of today.

Listen, Republicans dont need to be like Democrats. That would be the wrong thing. They need to include more people in what it is to be a Republican. The Republicans spend a lot of time excluding people because they have an element who seems to hate the personal chocies of others.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:40   #56
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You are making non sequitur leaps. Dont do that if you actually want to understand this issue.

Robbing banks is not one of those things nor is it a campaign issue anywhere.

But things like drugs, immigration, gay marriage and the like are.

fair enough, but does busting people for drugs make you a bad guy? why then the illogical leap in the electorate that enforcing a law is oppressive enough to validate voting for the MARXIST???
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:41   #57
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Every republican minority or woman politician is a target for the left. They aren't minority enough, or something. In the beginning, some on the left thought Obama wasn't black enough or down with the struggle.

Republicans have reached out are reaching out. Have you seen the diverse group Republicans? I'm willing to bet that there are more Hispanics serving than the Democrats.

They look for and want people "like me". I'm considered a minority. I despise the identity politics played by the Dems. I want no part.
No, they are not reaching out at all. They are showing off a handful of "different" people who tow the Republican line.

It is damned transparent and the proof is in the results.

When you start hearing rappers rapping about becoming CEOs and Hippies singing about smoking out with republicans....THEN you will be on to something. Point being, when the Republicans become "cool."
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:43   #58
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The Republicans spend a lot of time excluding people because they have an element who seems to hate the personal chocies of others.
I could make that exact same argument (different topics) against the dems.

an example? I'm a fox trapper. quite a few dems would like nothing better than to take this hobby away from me.

I could go on and on...
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:45   #59
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fair enough, but does busting people for drugs make you a bad guy? why then the illogical leap in the electorate that enforcing a law is oppressive enough to validate voting for the MARXIST???
I have answered that many times.

Imagine being gay and wanting all the things you (canis latrans) wants in life.

Now you have to vote. You agree with the Right, you really do, but they hate you and will use the power of the government against you (this doenst have to be real, it can simply be a fear...and it is a fair fear to have)

Who are you going to vote for?

Obama is the President. There is your answer.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:47   #60
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I could make that exact same argument (different topics) against the dems.

an example? I'm a fox trapper. quite a few dems would like nothing better than to take this hobby away from me.

I could go on and on...
Yes, you could make that arguement...but again, not a fair leap.

Of course the Democrats exclude....but not as much.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:52   #61
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No, they are not reaching out at all. They are showing off a handful of "different" people who tow the Republican line.

It is damned transparent and the proof is in the results.

When you start hearing rappers rapping about becoming CEOs and Hippies singing about smoking out with republicans....THEN you will be on to something. Point being, when the Republicans become "cool."
So, for you, off the top of my head, Herman Cain, Susana Martinez, Allen West, Mia love, Clarence Thomas, Marco Rubio, Condoleeza Rice are all token minorities toeing the Republican line. A dog and pony show, is that what you are saying? Symbolism over substance?
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:52   #62
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The same demographic from those eras is not the same demographic of today.

Listen, Republicans dont need to be like Democrats. That would be the wrong thing. They need to include more people in what it is to be a Republican. The Republicans spend a lot of time excluding people because they have an element who seems to hate the personal chocies of others.
Maybe we aren't giving those folks who are the new demographic enough credit. Sooner or later they will see through the smoke and mirrors of the Democrat party. I am sure most Republicans thought they would never get another President with an R next to his name after Hoover. Besides, if you flush the vaules voters, they have to made up for by some group. Who would that be? And would they come to the party in sufficient numbers to make up the difference? How would you convince them to sign up as Republicans? The values voters might well then become a third party. And even though they would not win elections, they could affect the outcomes of future elections.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:55   #63
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Well, damn!

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Old 11-07-2012, 19:57   #64
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Fine - scorched earth then. Last night the US became a nation of retards and cartoon watchers. Last nights result was like your neighbour's septic tank breaking due to his stupidity and flooding your living room with turds.

We DON'T unite behind this socialist scumbag - not unless you want to look like France and Greece and the plethora of other leftist basket cases.

Hit the vermin where you can personally:

* I've already cancelled any payroll type charitable contributions and will be making no more. Sorry you want to take my stuff, can't afford you.

* Email/phone/write letters or communicate with the Southern governors to withdraw all electrical tech support from the North-East. They played us, let'em starve and freeze to death. They played us, well, fine, we can put our people to good use on our own territory.

* Eliminate leftist organizations from those you do business
with. I've already reduced my Comcast to the bare minimum. When I told the rep I said "I might come back when Comcast drains the swamp at MSNBC." there was alot of sputtering at the end of the line.

* No aid whatsover to anyone who is a leftist. No social arrangements, no help of any kind - they are the enemy, not your friends and voted to destroy you. Let'em starve.

* No business where possible with union oriented enterprises
Thats obvious.

* No association with the leftist press - you can get enough truthful information online with contributing to the profitability
of basically terrorist propaganda organizations that helped throw the election to zero.

* On the GOP side, there has to be a relentless probing of this criminal administration's actions in Benghazi, Solyandra, Fast & Furious etc. Develop articles of impeachment, deliver them to the Senate where of course they will lapse - but they WILL get published. And again..and again. This is a criminal regime that gets Americans killed, destroys our credibility overseas, seeks to establish an alien / Socialist system. They have to be fought ever step of the way.

Its all just pinpricks - but 1000 pinpricks draws ALOT of blood.
This leftist scumbag only bested us in the popular vote by A couple of points, leaving enough furious people with a determined mindset that could hurt him and his minions of vermin.

`Well done sir....Thank you for your Post.
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Old 11-07-2012, 19:58   #65
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Rabbi is well spoken, but wrong.

If I believe in nothing, then I'll believe anything. I would rather stand by principle and be in the minority than abandone them just to win an election.

This go along to get along view of yours is what allowed your people to be slaughtered by the Nazis. I will not get onto the train.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:00   #66
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This country is slowly changing.

150 Years ago if someone stole a man's horse he'd hang. Today one can shoot the president, claim to be in love with a movie star and a few short years later freedom may be in sight.

Quislings and Traitors used to be executed. Now they're put up comfortably. Welfare used to be a stigma. Now it's a magnet. Freakish weirdness is not just tolerated, it's celebrated.

The times are changing. We can fight it, but only for so long. I don't mean to sound like a fatalist, but in just the last 50 years, I personally have seen huge shifts in attitudes about so many things.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:05   #67
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So, for you, off the top of my head, Herman Cain, Susana Martinez, Allen West, Mia love, Clarence Thomas, Marco Rubio, Condoleeza Rice are all token minorities toeing the Republican line. A dog and pony show, is that what you are saying? Symbolism over substance?
YES. (I hate saying that but, yes)

Most of the people you just mentioned are so accomplished, they are token to most everyone in the population. (and I have a man crush on Herman Cain)

Find me a few famous black gangster rappers.

Find me a Hispanic woman with 7 kids, has never had a job and has a husband in jail.

Find me an off the grid granola eating vegan hippy.

The sad thing is....the first two want what you want. To have much and live well. The third, well, lol, maybe not.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:09   #68
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Rabbi is well spoken, but wrong.

If I believe in nothing, then I'll believe anything. I would rather stand by principle and be in the minority than abandone them just to win an election.

This go along to get along view of yours is what allowed your people to be slaughtered by the Nazis. I will not get onto the train.

Really? you see nazis in this?

Again, I wil apply the "gotcha" of all of this to you. (and why, so many people vote left, even if they are, in a lot of ways, on the right)

So, your principles (the Right) is the party of "your personal choices are wrong" and we will use the law to keep those freedoms from you

The left is the party of inclusion.

And in your mind, me wanting (because I am on the Right)the right to include more people who may not be "like" us....and you NOT wanting that.....means MY THOUGHTS lead to the nazis?

Uh....No. You need to rethink things.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:14   #69
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YES. (I hate saying that but, yes)

Most of the people you just mentioned are so accomplished, they are token to most everyone in the population. (and I have a man crush on Herman Cain)

Find me a few famous black gangster rappers.

Find me a Hispanic woman with 7 kids, has never had a job and has a husband in jail.

Find me an off the grid granola eating vegan hippy.

The sad thing is....the first two want what you want. To have much and live well. The third, well, lol, maybe not.
I see. You're making the same argument of the left; Those people I listed aren't black enough, they aren't hispanic enough - they aren't down with the struggle.

Those people I listed are self-made. The people you listed, I don't know what to say about the people you listed.

As an atheist minority I have more in common with with the Republicans than I do with the people you listed.

The left is NOT the party of inclusion. The left is intollerant of ANY views that differ than thier own.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:16   #70
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That was an enjoyable read, Rabbi. Thanks.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:19   #71
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Good post Rabbi. The sun did indeed come up, and I got up and did my job like I do every day. My guy didn't win. That sucked, but I'm not going to give up on my country. It's worth the fight.

My hope, is that everybody can work together this time around to serve the people and leave the politics behind. I know that's naive, but, you never know.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:20   #72
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In most cases, when people who lean right complain about values voters, they are referring to pro rights people. Oh sure, they include an anti gay element, but I submit that gay rights voters are not that large a delegation. Neither are the pot smokers. And of those that are, many would be democrats anyway, no matter what Republicans did to try and woo them.
But W got elected twice against pro choice candidates, Al Gore and John Kerry.
What the Republicans need and will get again is another Genie in a Bottle. Like Reagan. Someone who is so likeable, he transcends politics and issues.

Much as a disagree with him BHO is likeable. Thats what really got him elected twice. But by 2016, the democrats will be back to the likes of fat ankled Hillary, or some other person who does not have the charisma and charm it takes to spell bind voters into ignoring performance.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:26   #73
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I see. You're making the same argument of the left; Those people I listed aren't black enough, they aren't hispanic enough - they aren't down with the struggle.

Those people I listed are self-made. The people you listed, I don't know what to say about the people you listed.

As an atheist minority I have more in common with with the Republicans than I do with the people you listed.

The left is NOT the party of inclusion. The left is intollerant of ANY views that differ than thier own.
How many black people can identify with Herman Cain? (or anyone for that matter) a Millionaire CEO and FED banker?

The left is the part of inclusion (in spite of the people they exclude)

This is not my opinion, this is the way a lot of people see it. Hell, it may not even be right and from my pov it sure isnt fair but it is reality.

You can fight first (and the results of that are failure most often) it or you can understand it and then plan and have a better plan.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:31   #74
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How many black people can identify with Herman Cain? (or anyone for that matter) a Millionaire CEO and FED banker?

The left is the part of inclusion (in spite of the people they exclude)

This is not my opinion, this is the way a lot of people see it. Hell, it may not even be right and from my pov it sure isnt fair but it is reality.

You can fight first (and the results of that are failure most often) it or you can understand it and then plan and have a better plan.
A lot more people can identify with Herman Cain than Obama, but they still vote for Obama.
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Old 11-07-2012, 20:36   #75
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How many black people can identify with Herman Cain? (or anyone for that matter) a Millionaire CEO and FED banker?

The left is the part of inclusion (in spite of the people they exclude)

This is not my opinion, this is the way a lot of people see it. Hell, it may not even be right and from my pov it sure isnt fair but it is reality.

You can fight first (and the results of that are failure most often) it or you can understand it and then plan and have a better plan.
More and more people are illegerate and won't take the time or make the effort to study the candidates/issues.

I doubt the average black voter knows anything about Cain other than what the talking heads have told them.

Illegeracy is what keeps getting Dems elected, not thier "inclusiveness".
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42