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Old 11-08-2012, 09:37   #61
MrGlock21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Shouldn't that be "Oui are Europe"?
and you are supposed to announce it while toasting with a verre du vin
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:12   #62
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
You understand that when we cut that ten dollars of spending, we can't pay a million dollars a year to keep peoples' mothers-in-law alive, right?

I'm not trying to get personal in the sense of a personal attack. I'm trying to point out that when budgets get cut, services have to get cut. I honestly don't think you understand that.

The things we spend the most money on are health care for old people and Social Security checks for old people. Any cuts would have to start with gutting those programs. You could cut almost everything else and not even begin to make a dent.
thats not so, the gubmint spend in excess of 700 billion a year on welfare NOT counting social security and medicare....but spends just over 500 billion a year on nation defense security.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:40   #63
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
You understand that when we cut that ten dollars of spending, we can't pay a million dollars a year to keep peoples' mothers-in-law alive, right?

I'm not trying to get personal in the sense of a personal attack. I'm trying to point out that when budgets get cut, services have to get cut. I honestly don't think you understand that.

The things we spend the most money on are health care for old people and Social Security checks for old people. Any cuts would have to start with gutting those programs. You could cut almost everything else and not even begin to make a dent.
The programs DO have to be changed, not gutted.

Starting to raise the retirement age again, eliminating the earnings ceiling at which social security tax stops being paid, means testing benefits, these probably all have to come into play.

Boosting the economy, putting more people back to work, and a guest worker program where non-resident aliens can come here legally to work and pay social security tax could also help. There is a lot that must be and can be done, but maintaining the status quo won't cut it, no will continuing to increase the already bloated entitlement system.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:43   #64
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:45   #65
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Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
eliminating the earnings ceiling at which social security tax stops being paid,
That's a tax increase.

And in your post you're essentially calling for these people who hit the ceiling to be means tested out of benes.

Just end it. For chrissakes those people had a lifetime to plan for their retirement.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:24   #66
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
It depends on how much they raise them, and on who. Bush 1 didn't raise taxes enough to deal with the deficit and things got worse. Clinton raised taxes enough, and cut spending enough to deal with the debe and things got better. .
You are more than misinformed.

The Clinton surplus was on paper because of the dot com bubble. Once all that money disappeared, the capital gains tax it generated went away too.

It had nothing to do with Clinton other than timing.

But why dont you speak the truth and admit that the plans set forth for 9/11 all happened under Clinton's watch and that attack had a huge financial impact that we had a hard time recovering from?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:49   #67
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
I thought about you while I was voting.
I know you think about me a lot, just please tell me you dont have naughty dreams about me.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:57   #68
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Arrogant condescending people like you are the reason the Republicans lost. With me help, my district replaced an incumbent Republican with a Democrat.
So why dont you help me out since you are so insightful and voted so well.

The company I am working for is making the decision over the next week to shut down the US operation and terminate all employees because of the uncertainty over costs and taxes. It is about 30% that it will happen.

I have been told I will be sent to the USA early to do it. If it is decided next week, I fly home Friday the 16th and chop on Monday and Tuesday. The ones that have to pack stuff up and ship capital equipment and assets to Europe get to stay until Dec 21. If it is shut down they want everyone off the books by the end of the year (end of year for us is Dec 21).

More over, the equipment that is process being built in the USA to be delivered next year will be cancelled.

So, help me out. How do you recommend getting rid of people a day or two before thanksgiving? Three days before Xmas? They have done nothing wrong other than be caught up in uncertainty where people are not willing to risk their money.

Maybe you could give me your phone number and you can explain to them how the election was actually good for them?

FWIW, I hope in the next 3 or 4 days I can pull something out of my butt or my butt will be moving. I already told wife 30% that she is moving.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:24   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
There will only be a recession if the Republicans continue to dig their heels in. We have to raise taxes. The question is whose.
The half that aren't paying anything.

.
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Last edited by aircarver; 11-08-2012 at 12:31..
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:00   #70
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I'm not trying to get personal in the sense of a personal attack. I'm trying to point out that when budgets get cut, services have to get cut. I honestly don't think you understand that.
Clinton raised taxes and curtailed government spending. The Republicans undid all of that and crashed the economy. Then they started blaming Obama before he took office. I don't think you understand that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
The things we spend the most money on are health care for old people and Social Security checks for old people. Any cuts would have to start with gutting those programs. You could cut almost everything else and not even begin to make a dent.
We spent enough on the unfunded wars Bush started to pay for health care for every person in the U.S.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:04   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Clinton raised taxes and curtailed government spending. The Republicans undid all of that and crashed the economy. Then they started blaming Obama before he took office. I don't think you understand that.



We spent enough on the unfunded wars Bush started to pay for health care for every person in the U.S.
This is funny. Clearly you don't remember Newt and Kasich. Kasich's nickname was The Hatchet Man and Newt Stole Christmas.

Oh, and the wars cost less per year than social security and medicare.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:08   #72
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Originally Posted by kensb2 View Post
I'd like to hear from Muscogee EXACTLY where we should decrease our spending, and EXACTLY who should be paying more in taxes, and why. I don't think he could come up with a plausible answer. It SOUNDS NICE to say cut $10/raise $1, but I want specifics. I also agree that the amount spent on welfare should NEVER exceed the amount spent on national defense.
Repeal the Bush tax cuts and bring the troops home from everywhere. Spend the money in the U.S. that we're currently spending everywhere else. That will stimulate our economy instead of everyone elses economy and get things done in the U.S. that need to be done. Turn health care into a free market instead of the medieval guild it is now.

What's your idea? Gutting SSI and turning Medicare into an HMO? Never happen. Wrong answer.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:09   #73
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Originally Posted by Mrs.Cicero View Post
WTH? We've been in a recession for years.
Only if you want to ignore what the definition of "recession" really is. Words matter. If you want to say the economy stinks, fine. But don't use terms incorrectly.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:11   #74
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Repeal the Bush tax cuts and bring the troops home from everywhere. Spend the money in the U.S. that we're currently spending everywhere else.
Yeah, government spending our money (regardless of where) really helps the economy. The last four years have proven that, right?
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:12   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
I know you think about me a lot, just please tell me you dont have naughty dreams about me.
But I do.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:14   #76
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Originally Posted by aircarver View Post
The half that aren't paying anything.

.
I've told you before, it was the Bush tax cuts that did that. Clinton raised taxes on everyone making over $24,000 per year.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:30   #77
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
It depends on how much they raise them, and on who. Bush 1 didn't raise taxes enough to deal with the deficit and things got worse. Clinton raised taxes enough, and cut spending enough to deal with the debe and things got better. Bush 2 cut taxes while going on a spending spree and the economy crashed. Don't give me the, "Clinton/Dodd/Frank did it" party line propaganda. No one but the party believes that.
The Dangerous Myth About The Bill Clinton Tax Increase

http://www.forbes.com/sites/charlesk...-tax-increase/
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:31   #78
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Quote:
I've told you before, it was the Bush tax cuts that did that. Clinton raised taxes on everyone making over $24,000 per year.
The 'stuff' you tell everybody is beyond belief ....

.
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They'd created a vast, permanently unemployed underclass, dependent upon the Republic's stupendous welfare machine for its very existence, and in so doing, they'd sown the seeds of their own destruction. No one could place two-thirds of a world's population on the Dole and keep them there forever without the entire system crashing . . . but how in hell did one get them off the Dole? -David Weber, Flag in Exile

Last edited by aircarver; 11-08-2012 at 14:32..
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:12   #79
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Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
I'm shorting the market on the first decent bounce, since it was already too late for me to do so this morning. The stock and bond markets are going to crash, and I'm glad I went to cash about three weeks ago, fearing just this election outcome.
I had the opportunity to short this morning when the tepid Obama Victory Bounce failed to materialize.

The last five minutes of trading today saw the S&P futures tank dramatically, not that it's any indication of future performance.

I'm all cash and short the market with expectations that we may see some dramatic movement in the markets from now until the end of the year. (Buy stop order to close my position is set at GTC)

Disclaimer: My opinion is not to be taken as an investment recommendation of any kind but rather an expression of my personal viewpoint.
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Old 11-08-2012, 16:58   #80
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Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
But I do.
I would call you a creepy old man, but I understand it. If I wasnt me, I would fantasize about me also. So its understandable.

Why do you ignore what I should tell people on the 30% I am sent home on the 16th to cut them loose before two major holidays because of how the election went and people not wanting to leave the money in the USA?

We are not deeply enough invested in the USA yet that it may be better to take some losses than loose more.

You may think i am giant bunghole that is greedy an heartless. In fact, if you actually worked for me, you would know me. I treat hard working people that are competent very well. I treat slackers like slackers. I have no problem cutting a slacker loose. I have no problem paying good employees very well. When I did yearly raises for a company in the last company I worked for in the USA I was generally given a 3 or 4% budget increase for salaries. The good employees got 5 or 6%. The slackers got 0 or 1% (basically if you got this it was the indication you should be looking for a job). What I do have a problem doing is cutting people when they are good and they did nothing to deserve it. However, sometimes things are out of their or my control.

So what should I tell these people? That the people in Europe who are funding the venture are now spooked by the economic climate and pulling money out. Just today Spanish bonds were trading 5% level (down from 8%) and the Spanish said they dont need a bailout. They are looking safer for investors than the USA right now.

Come on. You voted for this. Help me out with what I should tell them.
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