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Old 11-09-2012, 12:45   #41
LA_357SIG
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Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
There is nothing wrong with chrome a BCG, as long as you do not fall for the "self lubricating" nonsense. The friction coefficient is lower, but there are still advantages to running them wet.
Shooting suppressed is a big one. Nothing is more satisfying after a day of shooting suppressed than to wipe down a chrome bolt with a paper towel, relube and put it back together. No soaking, scrubbing or scraping needed.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:50   #42
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I bought a CMMG that was at a price i could not resist. All was fine until I tried to change front standard from sight to a gas block with rails. They have some sort of proprietary pin setup that kept the gas block from mounting up solid and it developed a leak causing FTE jams. The local shop had to order new sight pins from CMMG to get it put back in stock form. No more problems in stock form. I don't think there are any other parts that don't interchange. So; good rifle at an affordable price just don't mess with the stock gas setup on the front end.
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:09   #43
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What maker does Pat Rogers recommend and back?

How about an AR that just simply runs w/o the need for extra care. I'd rather spend my time shooting than maintaining.

Are you recommending people purchase non functional ARs so tap, rack, bang isn't the extent of their knowledge?
I never said he did. One definition of "can" is -be logically or axiologically able to. I swear, if your cognitive skills were as strong as your arrogance...

As far as your other comment and question, reread my post you quoted and adjust your cognition until you get an answer.
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:26   #44
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Warp,

I'm not going to deny that ARs have malfunctions. What I am going to tell you is that I have seen EVERY malfunction you can find in ANY AR thread on the internet on an M16 Rifle Range in the US Army with Colt and FN rifles.

That malfunction you described above is probably a case rim over the top of the bolt jam and while rare--I've seen it happen in the military. Its a beotch to clear for sure. But it happens even with fully functional MILSPEC issued rifles...

Anecdotal observations like yours are interesting. But they prove nothing. Its like saying you were driving home today and saw a Honda Accord broken down on the side of the road and therefore concluding the Honda Accord is an unreliable piece of junk!
Negative.

It's like saying I've only seen two Honda Accords in operation on the road and both broke down right in front of me, therefore I am not personally willing to spend my money on a Honda Accord at this point in time, nor am I comfortable telling other people to spend their money on a Honda Accord at this point in time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:56   #45
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Just an addendum to my previous post, since I agree that there are lots of folks out there with cheaper ARs that don't shoot them and post too much propaganda about theirs: I shoot mine as much as I can afford to. Sometimes that's 500 rounds a month, sometimes it's not. I would estimate my round count in the neighborhood of 8-9000, conservatively. I know that's not a whole lot, but so far mine is GTG. Your mileage may vary, and I would rather have a Colt or another top tier weapon, but it's the one I got.
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Old 11-09-2012, 13:58   #46
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Guys here will have different opinions, based on their experiences
exactly.... I have run a few of the lower end AR's through classes & thousands of rounds with hard hits & no cleaning & they were 100%. Same can be said from my BCM, spikes, & CMMG. The only problem I had was ironically with a 6920 where it would jam on the feed ramp after it got hot.
Also you have to understand how these work. You can buy a BCM, colt, DD, spikes etc, BCG & solve 90% of any potential problems a lower end AR may have. You can replace buffers going up & down in weight to correct over/under gas systems, you can replace barrels with CL 1:7 MPI tested ones, you can stake your castle yourself in all of 1 minute.....The point is a lower end AR doesn't have to stay a lower end AR if you buy one.
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Old 11-09-2012, 14:05   #47
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The most prevalent rifles in the hands of the DOE guards defending places like the Riverbend Nuclear Power Plant and The Strategic Petroleum Reserve are DPMS. Bushmaster has a lot of their rifles being used as well.
Friend of mine is a guard at one of the Tenn nuke plants. They are not issued colts. I asked him & he said he wasn't sure if he could tell me but said not colt & are F/A. They also are issued sig 9mm's for pistols.
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Old 11-09-2012, 14:20   #48
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Friend of mine is a guard at one of the Tenn nuke plants. They are not issued colts. I asked him & he said he wasn't sure if he could tell me but said not colt & are F/A. They also are issued sig 9mm's for pistols.
Those security contracts do not specify which make, simply functional characteristics. The contracts go to the lowest bidder who meets the specifications of the contract. I find it laughable when some mall ninja gives internet advice to the effect that "those are hobby grade rifles that should not be relied upon for serious purposes". There are not many purposes more serious than securing nuclear power plants and guarding nuclear weapons being transported within the US.
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Old 11-09-2012, 14:24   #49
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Those security contracts do not specify which make, simply functional characteristics. The contracts go to the lowest bidder who meets the specifications of the contract. I find it laughable when some mall ninja gives internet advice to the effect that "those are hobby grade rifles that should not be relied upon for serious purposes". There are not many purposes more serious than securing nuclear power plants and guarding nuclear weapons being transported within the US.
Good post.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:05   #50
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Very true. In every armsroom in the Army there are broken M4s or M16s. I'd guess the average is probably around 5 per company. Call that around 4% of them. Although I will say if something can be broke a soldier will manage to break one. I bent a barrel once my own self. Bad landing on a parachute jump.
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Warp,

I'm not going to deny that ARs have malfunctions. What I am going to tell you is that I have seen EVERY malfunction you can find in ANY AR thread on the internet on an M16 Rifle Range in the US Army with Colt and FN rifles.

That malfunction you described above is probably a case rim over the top of the bolt jam and while rare--I've seen it happen in the military. Its a beotch to clear for sure. But it happens even with fully functional MILSPEC issued rifles...

Anecdotal observations like yours are interesting. But they prove nothing. Its like saying you were driving home today and saw a Honda Accord broken down on the side of the road and therefore concluding the Honda Accord is an unreliable piece of junk!
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:11   #51
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The most prevalent rifles in the hands of the DOE guards defending places like the Riverbend Nuclear Power Plant and The Strategic Petroleum Reserve are DPMS. Bushmaster has a lot of their rifles being used as well.
Big whoop. DPS uses Bushmaster, doesn't increase the quality or lack of.

Many of us own and have owned And base our experience off of that. Not what the DOE chose. Who uses what based on the lowest bid is irrelevant.
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:17   #52
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Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Those security contracts do not specify which make, simply functional characteristics. The contracts go to the lowest bidder who meets the specifications of the contract. I find it laughable when some mall ninja gives internet advice to the effect that "those are hobby grade rifles that should not be relied upon for serious purposes". There are not many purposes more serious than securing nuclear power plants and guarding nuclear weapons being transported within the US.
So for folks to be hung up on "Colt, it's mil spec, military and XYZ use them." Is ninja?

But your basis for defending DPMS is some nuke plants are guarded by them?
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:05   #53
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The original owners lost their FFL due to violations of the law. Mostly unrelated to the actual production of their products. The machinery and patents were bought by a new company, price went up ($180 stripped, $270 complete), and are now available again. NO feedback on new company quality, but the lowers are off the same machinery with the same processes. http://www.gwacsarmory.com/cav-15-mkii.html

That said, the polymer lowers made by other companies, I would toss into the No-Go pile. ARs based on those lowers are the only ones I would consider "Dogs." There are certainly some ARs that are less desireable for various functions/needs as one goes up and down the price-line.

The few ARs out there that take aberant mags and or have proprietary components, I would also not consider for a "first" or "must-work" AR. Thankfully, the Piston ARs shine is wearing off and DI systems are back in vogue. While I have seen a few people recomend Spike's, I have seen some of their products that underscore a basic lack of understanding of the AR platform, so they would not be on my list. I'd be wary of newer Bushmaster's and I would not consider an Olympic.

From what I have seen, I would have no issues with DPMS, Double-Star, DD, BCM, LMT, Stag or S&W. Personally, I think LaRue and Colt are WAY over-hyped and, while quality, there are equal or better ARs for less coin. If you want to spend a bit more, Noveske is near the top of the list and an excellent product.

I've owned Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, Firebird, JP, Noveske and others. Most of those are gone. IMO, you can get a better quality rifle with careful planning and cherry-picking parts that will serve your needs better, educate you on the operation, and cost less money, by building it yourself.

In 3Gun, we are seeing of lot of new shooters who have some sort of M4gery come out to play. As a result, we are seeing a LOT more failures: case head separations, failure to eject, extract, chamber, etc. and most of these are related to operator error in terms of maintenance. Guys takle a new rifle and go shoot 200 rounds and now you have failures. The crap some manufacturers coat their parts with gets almost like tar. But also, when you see "sponsored" shooters running factory guns that have multiple malfunctions over several matches, you start to say...that stuff don't work.

In any basic "must-work" AR, I'd avoid adjustable gas, Chromed BCGs, cheap sights, trigger jobs on mil-spec parts. Other than that, the BCG is probably the most important assembly to NOT skimp on.

Last point for the DPMS bashers...realize that a LOT of the small parts in other brands ARE DPMS parts. Also, the receivers and barrels come from a small number of factories and are branded for several "manufacturers."

This is just an honest question, and not an attempt at confrontation, and since neither of us has an emotional investment in this, Im hoping we can have a short discussion with logic, well-articulated arguments, and respect for one another...Im curious what has soured you towards Spike's? I just recently bought my first AR/M4 or whatever you wanna call it, a Spike's Tactical Elite 16" Middy with NiBX BCG and CHF CL barrel. I did my research and settled on this model. Over on M4carbine.net if you dont have a Colt, DD, or BCM you are just a plain ol' jackass, so as knowledgeable as most guys are there, I took anything I read there regarding Spike's with a grain of salt, since they showed particular bias towards BCM.
Overall I was happy with what I learned about Spike's and obviously went with them. The NiBX BCG kinda put me over the top because I have a Glock 27 with a NiBX coated barrel and upper, and Im very fond of how easy it is to clean.
Ive been very happy with my gun so far, but I've only put around 300 trouble-free rounds through it thus far, so it is by no means considered reliable yet in my mind. Also, while researching which M4 I wanted, most information I came across regarding people's thoughts on Spike's build quality was that they paid special attention to detail and the small stuff...
I'd just like to hear you expound on your opinion of Spike's rifles, not to start a debate, but because Im genuinely interested in learning about any potential issues I may or may not have with my gun, and if your experience with them would apply to my gun...Thanks!
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Last edited by arushus; 11-09-2012 at 18:13..
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Old 11-09-2012, 18:43   #54
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So for folks to be hung up on "Colt, it's mil spec, military and XYZ use them." Is ninja?

But your basis for defending DPMS is some nuke plants are guarded by them?
Can you cite where I have posted anything degrading Colt rifles, mil specs, or any organization, agency, or individual because they use Colt or mil spec rifles?

You cannot cite it because I have not posted anything of the sort. Quit making stuff up.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:39   #55
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Im curious what has soured you towards Spike's?
Can't speak for him, but the AR world has always been flavor of the month.
Years ago, Bushmaster was it, then shortly after that CMMG, then LMT, then BCM, now it's spikes. Each ones gets ragged on after another flavor comes out. Just how it is.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:40   #56
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Can't speak for him, but the AR world has always been flavor of the month.
Years ago, Bushmaster was it, then shortly after that CMMG, then LMT, then BCM, now it's spikes. Each ones gets ragged on after another flavor comes out. Just how it is.
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Old 11-09-2012, 19:57   #57
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Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Can you cite where I have posted anything degrading Colt rifles, mil specs, or any organization, agency, or individual because they use Colt or mil spec rifles?

You cannot cite it because I have not posted anything of the sort. Quit making stuff up.
Try again, it's there.

You degraded people with experience based standards.
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:06   #58
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Try again, it's there.

You degraded people with experience based standards.
I did no such thing. You are a liar. List the names of the people I supposedly degraded and the number of the post in which I allegedly degraded them.
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Old 11-09-2012, 20:26   #59
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Negative.

It's like saying I've only seen two Honda Accords in operation on the road and both broke down right in front of me, therefore I am not personally willing to spend my money on a Honda Accord at this point in time, nor am I comfortable telling other people to spend their money on a Honda Accord at this point in time.
Then you certainly wouldn't want to drive an Accord through N Dallas.
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Old 11-09-2012, 21:51   #60
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Whats wrong with Chromed BCGs? I've got a Daniel Defense chrome BCG in my newest build and can't possibly see anything wrong with it.
I said "avoid" not "wrong".

Some chromed BCGs end up being a tad tight. You are running a hard (steel) carrier in a softer (aluminum) receiver. There is just no need for it. In some cases, you can end up with increases receiver wear. Granted, several thousand rounds, which most people will never shoot.
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