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Old 11-10-2012, 23:40   #21
mjkeat
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I am confused. You bought 2 lowers, one of which is complete and the other is stripped. And your looking for a complete rifle for 500-600 bucks? Whats your plan with the lowers?
It started out as looking for a complete upper.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:42   #22
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It started out as looking for a complete upper.
That's what I had thought. My first post was geared toward that. Post #17
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:47   #23
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I am confused. You bought 2 lowers, one of which is complete and the other is stripped. And your looking for a complete rifle for 500-600 bucks? Whats your plan with the lowers?
The stripped lower I'm going to build over time. Piece by piece. I know what I want to do with that system. The complete lower, I will be shooting a good amount of rounds through, most likely 2000-3000 rounds a year. My main question would be, Is there an upper out there, that I could use on the complete lower that won't cause me to completely waste money. I would hate to spend $400 on an upper, just to get a million problems, and realize that if I would have spent a little more, I would have had better reliability, and less headaches.

Like I said before, I can build them, and shoot them, but my experience with different weapons systems is limited. I have trained and used the Colt M16 and Colt LE M4. We just got the new HK416, which I love, just don't have a couple grand to spill out on one.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:52   #24
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That round count really isn't that high. Well it might be if ammunition gets harder to find and more expensive. Look into Palmetto but be prepared to wait and possibly get the wrong item the first or second go around. You could spend slightly more and have piece of mind.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:01   #25
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OP- there are a few guys at work that have Del-ton rifles, they bought the entire kit. They seem to fine for what the guys use them for (shooting 80 rounds 3 times a year). I am not saying that in an A hole way.

Here is the issue/something to think about. The price point is just not that much of a difference to justify it, you get a lot more for your money jumping to BCM. I say BCM because it is the brand that you probably get the absolute most for your money. Trust me, I struggled with this concept too. If you came up on a used Delton or DPMS for a bargain then yeah jump on it. But if I am shelling out 5 bills for a Delton or DPMS complete upper why not just spend 100 more dollars and get a standard BCM upper with a BCM bolt carrier group?
How so?

A Del-Ton 16" M4 with 1/7 CMV chrome lined batch MPT/HP tested barrel, F Marked FSB, single shield handguard, charging handle and MPT/HP BCG is $460 before shipping.

A BCM 16" M4 1/7 11595-E chrome lined individually MPI/HP tested barrel, HG, CH, MPT/HP BCG, double shield handguard is $680

The $220 difference gets you a 11595-E spec and individually inspected barrel?

Not praising Del-Ton, but not seeing the value/money.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:11   #26
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LA 357, what you mention is just part of the equation. CS, QC, has to be figured in. As we all know anyone can assemble an AR though assembling it correctly can be a task. How about weight times? Getting the product in a timely manner is important.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:30   #27
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LA 357, what you mention is just part of the equation. CS, QC, has to be figured in. As we all know anyone can assemble an AR though assembling it correctly can be a task. How about weight times? Getting the product in a timely manner is important.
But if I am shelling out 5 bills for a Delton or DPMS complete upper why not just spend 100 more dollars and get a standard BCM upper with a BCM bolt carrier group?

Your statement is irrelevant. The BCM upper is not 100 dollars more than a Del-Ton. It is $220 more. The Del-Ton is not "5 bills." Instead of bringing up (for lack of a better description) anomalies that do not address my comments that you quote, try disputing what I say directly. Bringing up extraneous and trivial matter that helps promote your agenda, while side tracking the posts you quote, really makes you seem desperate for attention and frankly speaking, in bad taste.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:40   #28
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Delete.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:50   #29
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http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-B...0auto%20mp.htm


439+160= 599 That is a complete upper. factor in 15 or 20 dollars for shipping. I am not going to argue how BCM is a better value than Delton, just not going to do it. Its like telling my son he can't have cookies for dinner over and over. You are correct LA357SIG, Delton is the same as BCM, hundreds of thousands of AR shooters over paid drastically.
No. A barreled upper and bolt carrier is not a complete upper. Nor does $599 equal "5 bills." You still lack a charging handle and handguards. You claim you are not arguing how BCM is a better value than Del-Ton, but your sarcastic accusation that I am means what? "Not praising Del-Ton, but not seeing the value/money." Seems to suggest that I am not implying that they are equal. $220 seems a lot of money for barrel steel, individual MPT/HP testing and double heat shield handguards.
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Old 11-11-2012, 00:51   #30
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Your statement is irrelevant. The BCM upper is not 100 dollars more than a Del-Ton. It is $220 more. The Del-Ton is not "5 bills." Instead of bringing up (for lack of a better description) anomalies that do not address my comments that you quote, try disputing what I say directly. Bringing up extraneous and trivial matter that helps promote your agenda, while side tracking the posts you quote, really makes you seem desperate for attention and frankly speaking, in bad taste.
You stated that all you get is individual testing and better steel (your post at 00:01). I stated that there is much more to it than those two items alone. I then listed the additional items the extra $ includes. It is very relevant.

My only agenda is to help inform.

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Old 11-11-2012, 01:07   #31
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You stated that all you get is individual testing and better steel (your post at 00:01). I stated that there is much more to it than those two items alone. I then listed the additional items the extra $ includes. It is very relevant.

My only agenda is to help inform.
Wait. So comparing prices goes beyond items that have a stock number? Give me a break.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:17   #32
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Wait. So comparing prices goes beyond items that have a stock number? Give me a break.
So QC and CS as well as shipping time mean? How about piece of mind? Do those things not require more hands on deck thus raising overhead?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:22   #33
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Originally Posted by LA_357SIG View Post
No. A barreled upper and bolt carrier is not a complete upper. Nor does $599 equal "5 bills." You still lack a charging handle and handguards. You claim you are not arguing how BCM is a better value than Del-Ton, but your sarcastic accusation that I am means what? "Not praising Del-Ton, but not seeing the value/money." Seems to suggest that I am not implying that they are equal. $220 seems a lot of money for barrel steel, individual MPT/HP testing and double heat shield handguards.
220 dollars seems like very little to me for Quality control, customer service and a proven track record but that is just me. My friends bought rifle kits for around 500 if I remember correctly, so the complete uppers I am assuming will be cheaper. I will stick with your 220 dollar difference, which is trivial to me on something I will have my lifetime and hopefully my sons.

I can save 220 bucks somewhere else in life. All 3 of my coworkers waited close to 3 months when they ordered their kits, that's not a value in my mind. There is a lot more to value than what their websites spec sheet says. Is there even 1 upper on their website that is in stock?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:30   #34
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Pete,

While the jerkoffs are arguing, let me submit for your consideration....

Your stated purpose for your first upper is plinking and range fun. An upper doesn't have any moving parts. Exactly what do you think is going to be significant about an upper? Twist and the rails and handguards. For your first one, get what appeals to you. Then on your next one, you can be more "serious" if it isn't as accurate as you want.

If you do not live in N Dallas, and don't see the combat that is common in N Dallas, do you really need to spend $1k or more on an upper? I say no. For "range fun and plinking"....... get what you like. The thing you should be focusing on is carbine, middy, or 20", and possibly chrome lined receiver and barrel. I once read that "Brand A" doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, and when I looked at mine, I found that to be a lie. Brand isn't going to be that critical for a plinker and range rifle. And hey, at some point in the future, if it isn't as accurate as you want, you can always buy another barrel.

Get that first one done, run it a while, then go from there. You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever.

If you read these forums, you know there are members who make it their personal goal to influence your decision to their favorite brand, or away from what they don't like. Not because they want to help you, but because they have a desperate need for validation.

Get what you like, at a price you are comfortable with, and have fun. I would be willing to bet you will be happy. You'll drive yourself crazy if you listen to the stupid crap the brand whores are spewing. Look at the first rifle\build as a learning experience (that will still work), and worst case, the second is a mulligan.

Just have fun with it.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:30   #35
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Lots of pissing going on in this thread
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:32   #36
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Lots of pissing going on in this thread
In EVERY thread. And it is usually the same morons participating.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:34   #37
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Originally Posted by bmoore View Post
220 dollars seems like very little to me for Quality control, customer service and a proven track record but that is just me. My friends bought rifle kits for around 500 if I remember correctly, so the complete uppers I am assuming will be cheaper. I will stick with your 220 dollar difference, which is trivial to me on something I will have my lifetime and hopefully my sons.

I can save 220 bucks somewhere else in life. All 3 of my coworkers waited close to 3 months when they ordered their kits, that's not a value in my mind. There is a lot more to value than what their websites spec sheet says. Is there even 1 upper on their website that is in stock?
In the words of a wise man, "Give me a break." Are you serious!? There's value to be added for things that don't require a serial/part/model/stock#?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:46   #38
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In EVERY thread. And it is usually the same morons participating.
You're going to call names after giving the advice in your earlier post?

$1000 upper? Who's recommending a $1k upper?

Purchase a cheap upper now then another later on? Why? So he ends up spending much more in the long run? Makes a lot of sense for a guy on a budget.

Brand whores? Have you ever thought that people recommend brands on the bases of quality?

"You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever." Since when do lowers have barrels and rails?

Yeah, lets call others names and question their advice.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:29   #39
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I should have proofread these before hitting [Submit]

The BCM upper configured as close as Del-Ton offered (16" carbine, Chrome Lined 1/7 twist, Charging Handle, BCG, and Handguards) was $645 not $680. So $185 was the difference.

Del-Ton upper still isn't "5 bills" and $185 is still not "$100" more. No matter how you scrutinize it with extraneous babble, it still holds true.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:32   #40
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Originally Posted by Sporaticus View Post
Pete,

While the jerkoffs are arguing, let me submit for your consideration....

Your stated purpose for your first upper is plinking and range fun. An upper doesn't have any moving parts. Exactly what do you think is going to be significant about an upper? Twist and the rails and handguards. For your first one, get what appeals to you. Then on your next one, you can be more "serious" if it isn't as accurate as you want.

If you do not live in N Dallas, and don't see the combat that is common in N Dallas, do you really need to spend $1k or more on an upper? I say no. For "range fun and plinking"....... get what you like. The thing you should be focusing on is carbine, middy, or 20", and possibly chrome lined receiver and barrel. I once read that "Brand A" doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, and when I looked at mine, I found that to be a lie. Brand isn't going to be that critical for a plinker and range rifle. And hey, at some point in the future, if it isn't as accurate as you want, you can always buy another barrel.

Get that first one done, run it a while, then go from there. You might find there are aspects you want to address on the next lower. Longer barrel, different twist, better accuracy, different rails, whatever.

If you read these forums, you know there are members who make it their personal goal to influence your decision to their favorite brand, or away from what they don't like. Not because they want to help you, but because they have a desperate need for validation.

Get what you like, at a price you are comfortable with, and have fun. I would be willing to bet you will be happy. You'll drive yourself crazy if you listen to the stupid crap the brand whores are spewing. Look at the first rifle\build as a learning experience (that will still work), and worst case, the second is a mulligan.

Just have fun with it.

Thanks forum hero. Some of us "submitted" some advice to him a lot earlier in the thread. Jesse Jackson called, he wants his coin phrase "submit to you" back. People with little smarts who are trying to sound smart have been using that one for decades.

OP- Buy whatever you want. My original advice was in post #17, before I the finger pointing started. Figure 200 bucks more for the BCM. Buy what you think will work for you, giving advice on this forum is getting hard to do.
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