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Old 11-10-2012, 07:00   #26
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Originally Posted by Vic777 View Post
The lieberal solution will be the "easy" one. First ring up a Thirty Trillion Debt by the end of Obama's reign, then elect Biden. Biden will default on the dept offering China a One cent on the dollar take it or leave it offer. This will have been his major Campaign plank. -- stick it to the Rich Chinese ---Gasoline will not be for sale at any price. It will be fun to watch on my solar powered TV.
That's probably not far from the truth.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:11   #27
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There's no ironclad promise to pay out all that money. They pass a bill reforming the programs and a chunk of the unfunded liability disappears. Four more years of not tackling this, which they absolutely won't now, makes the problem a good bit worse as the debt compounds each year instead of increasing at a flat rate.
No matter what the fate of future Medicare-SocSec recipients one thing you can bet on: Welfare recipients WILL be taken care of. "Our" government is afraid of them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:22   #28
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
Or if every man woman and child gave $1 a year it would take 44 years to pay the dept.
So lets tax every man women and child equally accross the board $100! For the next ten years and pay it off! No refunds until it's done! I'm sure all those that don't pay taxes will agree right? Anyone think Sandra Fluke wound give up sex to pay her share? Naw she'd exspect the Gov. to pay for right! Oh another thing this will be cash only! No checks, credit cards!
I actually think that this would be a doable thing to do and I'm sure if there was a real plan like that there would be some people to volunteer to pay a little more.
Even the lower class could have it deducted from food stamps or other programs at like $9 per month.

On the flip site with the current administration it would go to way more spending instead of paying down the debt.
And they will even now start more welfare programs no matter the cost.
Something drastic needs to happen to have the reset button pushed and at some point it will happen and be way worse then making hard decisions now to fix this mess.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:26   #29
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Originally Posted by GAFinch View Post
Ugh...it's even worse than I imagined. I didn't know it was possible. I'll probably put this in a new thread tomorrow:

http://www.fedupusa.org/2012/11/the-...ng-to-implode/

From a former commodities broker. The video series totals 2.5 hours, but I can't emphasize enough how much more educational it is compared to normal economic articles.
GAFinch,
Thank you as you actually helped me understand more then I ever knew before.
I really should have put more time into this before saying something but now I'm even wiser.
However my math was right on just not the part as to who we owe it too.
On the other hand I'm not sure that is better that we Owe nearly 4 trillion to several countries vs just one.

I have not have the time to watch the video but have it bookmarked and will watch it.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:37   #30
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
Or if every man woman and child gave $1 a year it would take 44 years to pay the dept.
So lets tax every man women and child equally accross the board $100! For the next ten years and pay it off! No refunds until it's done! I'm sure all those that don't pay taxes will agree right? Anyone think Sandra Fluke wound give up sex to pay her share? Naw she'd exspect the Gov. to pay for right! Oh another thing this will be cash only! No checks, credit cards!
Uh, what? 320 million dollars a year will pay off our interest bearing debt? From what I've read of your posts, you can barely spell most 1 syllable words. Maybe you should start there before you tackle loan amortization.


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Old 11-10-2012, 07:49   #31
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Who cares.
This pretty well sums it up.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:26   #32
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How long will it take to pay off the money owed?
pay off?! who said anything about paying off the debt?!
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:27   #33
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No matter what the fate of future Medicare-SocSec recipients one thing you can bet on: Welfare recipients WILL be taken care of. "Our" government is afraid of them.
When a government runs out of money, it will keep printing/borrowing money to continue paying out welfare checks in order to keep their voting majority. Once the system completely collapses, however, and the masses are hungry and angry, that's a different story. Look at the Marxist transitions in Russia and China, where there was a temporary systemic economic disruption and resulting food shortages. The poor masses become a security threat and are taken care of by being rounded up and shot in the back of the head, even though they're the ones who Marxism is supposed to be helping. Once the unruly mobs are dealt with, then they take care of their loyal underlings who know too many of their dirty secrets, then they move on to the principaled capitalist and religious individuals. We're talking about narcissistic atheists in positions of unchecked power here. They're sociopaths. They have nothing to fear except for their own lives here on earth.
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Last edited by GAFinch; 11-10-2012 at 09:10.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:27   #34
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16,000,000,000,000 / 1,000,000,000 = 16,000 / 365 = 43.8 years
So if we paid one billion dollars a day with no intrest figured in it would take 43.8 years to pay the 16 trillion.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:28   #35
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I have not have the time to watch the video but have it bookmarked and will watch it.
I know it's long, but try to at least make it through the third video.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:50   #36
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There is no other way to deal with the debt that default or continuing to devalue the dollar. What happens when the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency?

When interest rates return to their historical average of 4% that will add $1 trillion a year just to service the debt.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:54   #37
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They stopped lending us money a while ago...they only hold about $1 trillion of our money. Most of it is held by the Fed now, which is also printing ~$60 billion/month of our money to inject into the marketplace, and then they "loan" us more money to service the yearly deficit. It's become a giant, circular Ponzi scheme.
This is good information. Let's try to get the real story, which I admit I have no clue what is really going on. I feel like Biden and Obama in that regard.
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Old 11-10-2012, 14:18   #38
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Originally Posted by G17Jake View Post
It may not make sense to you and me, but to Obama it is the fair thing to do.

Obama wants the government to play whack-a-mole with the achievers. When one starts to reap the benefits of their hard work, the government knocks them back down in the name of fairness.

Yeah, everyone gets a "fair shot" at being Kenyan or Sudanese, Libyan or - -
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Old 11-10-2012, 16:43   #39
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They stopped lending us money a while ago...they only hold about $1 trillion of our money. Most of it is held by the Fed now, which is also printing ~$60 billion/month of our money to inject into the marketplace, and then they "loan" us more money to service the yearly deficit. It's become a giant, circular Ponzi scheme.
I just heard on the Radio that America owes China + Japan 5.1 Trillion. I would like to see a 5,000 word essay explaining the situation and using the real figures. It would be nice to see exactly where we stand. Also explaining what would happen if oil was bought using say the YUAN. And how a default in Greece etc. effects the USA.
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Last edited by Vic777; 11-10-2012 at 16:45..
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:50   #40
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Originally Posted by Vic777 View Post
I just heard on the Radio that America owes China + Japan 5.1 Trillion. I would like to see a 5,000 word essay explaining the situation and using the real figures. It would be nice to see exactly where we stand. Also explaining what would happen if oil was bought using say the YUAN. And how a default in Greece etc. effects the USA.
What they probably said on the radio was that around $5.1 trillion of debt is owned by foreign investors, the largest of which are China and Japan, who each have about $1 trillion. The rest is mostly owned (or backed) by the Fed.

Greece? Simplified explanation pulled from the link I posted:

1. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs buy Grecian debt.
2. Citibank borrows money from the Fed at 0% interest rate.
3. Citibank then buys credit default swaps on Grecian debt from JPM and GS.
-Citi pays JPM/GS 1%. In return, JPS/GS agrees to guarantee Citi's Grecian bonds in the event of a Grecian default.
-In return, if a default happens, Citi would surrender the Spanish bonds to JPM/GS who would get to keep any salvage value. (the swap portion)
-Yes, JPM/GS is actually writing insurance policies on sovereign debts.
4. Due to TARP, banks no longer have a 10% reserve requirement (10% of their loans must be secured with assets). It's now 0%. Loans can be issued infinitely.
5. Credit default swaps happen in-between Greece and the US, Greece and Italy, Greece and Spain, Greece and Germany, Greece and Japan, Italy and Spain, Britain and Japan, etc. They're buying each other's worthless junk bonds with printed money to stop bank runs and keep welfare checks flowing to stay in power. This is being repeated over and over and over again. This international unsecured debt is estimated to now total around $1.5 quadrillion.
6. How do they protect themselves?
-Bribing ISDA to never declare a default on a country.
- Sending employees into governments and central banks to provide ongoing bailouts.
7. If a country were to finally default, every other participating country would default at the same time since the central banks and investment firms are so closely linked together in these circular loans and transactions are largely done autonomously and instantaneously by computer programs instead of human beings.

I know, not quite 5,000 words.
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:32   #41
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In my opinion the U.S. doesn't owe anyone anything. We've been pumping billions and billions around the world in aid for a long, long time now not to mention saving the whole damn planet from speaking German twice (not that it isn't a beautiful language).

When do we start getting that money paid back?
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Old 11-10-2012, 20:13   #42
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Here are two number that provide the answer:
55,000,000,000,000,000
17,000,000,000,000
The first is the net worth of households and non-profits.
The second is the national debt.
Obviously it could be paid off very quickly with the right politicians in office.
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:19   #43
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Typical Libertard response! So how would you fix it? Oh let me guess tax the rich! What I proposed is have EVERY AMERICAN pay it off -its OUR debt! So every American should feel the pain so we never go back through it again. Your Messiah is all for fairness right what could be more fair then EVERYONE PAYING! After the debt is paided off we Admend the COTUS to spell out a new law that can't be broken without major jail time for the POTUS. You will not spend more then 90% of all revenue recieved to the Treasury! If the POTUS does he impeached and jailed. So budgets will be based on the previous years revenue. If the revenue drops below what is needed to run certain programs -they go away or are rebudgeted to come with in the revenue stream.
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Old 11-10-2012, 21:44   #44
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Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
Who cares.

I'm part of the 47%!

Spyder

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How myopic.

Who cares? You will- when the benefits you are receiving are paid to you in a currency that has more value as toilet paper than as a negotiable instrument.
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:12   #45
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Like we didn't know this already! Mouthbreathers really do stand out in a crowd!
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Old 11-11-2012, 14:55   #46
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Here are two number that provide the answer:
55,000,000,000,000,000
17,000,000,000,000
The first is the net worth of households and non-profits.
The second is the national debt.
Obviously it could be paid off very quickly with the right politicians in office.
I find different (much, much lower) numbers for net worth of all the USA, but I take issue with the idea the right politicians could fix the debt based on it. It's not their money to appropriate (and you're also ignoring how liquid such assets are). But, most of all, it's not theirs to appropriate.

Stop. The. Spending. Now.
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Old 11-11-2012, 15:16   #47
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What makes you think they have any intentions of paying it off?
JB, send me your address via PM and I will send you the booby prize....first one out of the gate already has the answer.

There is no plan or really incentive to pay off the debt; the numbers we are talking about now are so one sided the further we go along the next 30 years the more obvious it will become.

I've posted this several times since the election but federal revenues need to increase 150-240% to cover current expenditures not considering inflation or the increased costs of borrowing.

In 2011, federal expenditures just to pay the interest absorbed 10% of federal income.

I've dumbed this down several times but the federal government is currently a guy making $40K/year with almost $300,000 in credit card bills and a mortgage of $2.4 million dollars. If you were this person and you knew the only way to increase your income was to rob your neighbor what do you think your chances look like?
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Old 11-11-2012, 20:46   #48
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Who cares.

I'm part of the 47%!

Spyder

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You sound like my ex. Her ass ain't getting any tighter, either.
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