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Old 11-13-2012, 15:15   #126
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I'm not arguing against the chart. I use the chart quite often. Before I buy an AR, I look at the chart. I haven't been able to find it lately, and it appears the author has been banned from M4C
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Old 11-13-2012, 16:44   #127
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Double Star hasn't made it into the "approved" group. Until so called experts start praising it, it will be beat up, regardless of whether people have problems with them or not.
you mean, it's not just my imagination?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:29   #128
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Ill chime in. I just built my AR using mostly Parts from PSA, with some Magpul and a New Frontier Polymer lower thrown in. 420 rounds later with a single failure that was the fault of the weapon. Including several mag dumps. Wife tried to force a mag in backwards which caused the mag to break and double feed once I inserted it properly.


The big difference in price comes down to the barrel and accessories. Make sure you are getting a quality barrel. Typically this mean chrome lined hammer forged 5.56 chamber with a 1-7 twist but not always. Slower twist will really only work with 233 and light projectiles.

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Old 11-14-2012, 04:56   #129
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I know one training school who doesn't allow students in their carbine classes to use home build rifles. I read something the chief instructor said on the net, so I don't know if they reject certain brands, but I have seen him say they don't allow home builds because of the high failure rate. I guess when someone is having problems, it disrupts the class.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:25   #130
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I would think rules like that are more for insurance reasons. Having a home built gun induces a bit of legal issues if it blows up & injures someone.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:33   #131
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn View Post
I know one training school who doesn't allow students in their carbine classes to use home build rifles. I read something the chief instructor said on the net, so I don't know if they reject certain brands, but I have seen him say they don't allow home builds because of the high failure rate. I guess when someone is having problems, it disrupts the class.
Folks in my classes get one firearm or ammo caused malfunction. On the second one, we put a carbine or ammo in their hands that we know works. It is simply to distracting to the training process to have malfunction troubleshooting happening constantly on the firing line. Shooters who clear malfunctions efficiently and resume shooting without delay and resume the drill without distracting other students may be allowed to continue with their own gear at the discretion of the RSO.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:07   #132
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It's disruptive as hell. You end up sitting on the line waiting for the instructor to diagnose some turd carbine.

While running team drills, downed vehicle, the shooter I was paired up w/ kept having problems. Their carbine went single shot. Hundreds of dollars and a 6 hour drive later I felt slighted out of valuable training.

I had a lady schedule a private instruction. She showed up w/ a High Point. the majority of the PI was spent messing w/ the low quality handgun.

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The creator of the chart, IMO, was a great source of straight forward no nonsense honest information. The kind I prefer as the candy coated BS is a waste of time. He spoke his mind. Many don't like honesty when it doesnt support their assumptions. He once sent a jab my way. At first I was pissed but then after a minute of thought I realized he was correct.

From my understanding the author of the chart is locating and deleting all traces of that document. It is a shame as it helped create informed consumers.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:44   #133
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It's disruptive as hell. You end up sitting on the line waiting for the instructor to diagnose some turd carbine.
Is it a "rampid" problem?
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:54   #134
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.................

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:57   #135
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Is it a "rampid" problem?
Yes, a problem you are a consistent participant in.

I find there is a common thread b/w those that use smiley faces in their posts.

Try making a viable contribution instead of being a leach.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:00   #136
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Yes, a problem you are a consistent participant in.

I find there is a common thread b/w those that use smiley faces in their posts.

Try making a viable contribution instead of being a leach.
~560 posts in 11 years. I must not be too consistent. I guess English isn't your only weak subject, but math too.

I'll try not to be too "rampid".
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:16   #137
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Lol, hang on to that if it helps and thank you for illustrating my point. I'll try and make another mistake in the next couple thousand posts so you have something to post about.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:23   #138
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The above is a good reason to require factory ammunition, too.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:37   #139
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Guys here will have different opinions, based on their experiences, and/or repeating what they have heard or read.

The guy above said Olympic Arms is no good, well I had one that ran great and never gave me a problem. This holds true with any brand, one guy will have one that works, the next guy has one thats junk.

It's safe to say many less expensive AR brands have spotty quality control, your chances of getting a lemon are higher than a higher end brand.


edit: Do a search here, there is hundreds of "what AR should I get threads".
Good point, how about this then. For a person on a beer budget, what are the top 3-4 ARs.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:42   #140
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Folks in my classes get one firearm or ammo caused malfunction. On the second one, we put a carbine or ammo in their hands that we know works. It is simply to distracting to the training process to have malfunction troubleshooting happening constantly on the firing line. Shooters who clear malfunctions efficiently and resume shooting without delay and resume the drill without distracting other students may be allowed to continue with their own gear at the discretion of the RSO.
Reminds me. I need to get out and start running some drills. A lot of rifle work great at the rifle range and screwing around on the farm. But maybe not so much during hardcore run and gun.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:43   #141
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Good point, how about this then. For a person on a beer budget, what are the top 3-4 ARs.
If you cannot (or are just not willing to) afford a BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, etc. etc.

I would next look at:
Spikes
S&W
PSA



Personally.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:45   #142
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If you cannot (or are just not willing to) afford a BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, LMT, LaRue, etc. etc.

I would next look at:
Spikes
S&W
PSA



Personally.
I like spikes stuff, but they are out of a lot of their lowers at the moment. Last I looked every single lower receiver was back ordered for months.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:48   #143
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I find there is a common thread b/w those that use smiley faces in their posts.
Did you count this as a smiley face? The reason I ask is you got that thread locked.

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Old 11-14-2012, 18:14   #144
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I was just on Spike's site and all their rifles were over $1k. Priced higher than a 6920/6720. Except for one that was right at $900 and it had a 8-12 month wait. Spikes has been known to underestimate their wait times.

I had a Spikes and it was nice. It didn't see as many rounds as the others however. I know they did shady things w/ price gouging and lying about the materials they were using though.
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:20   #145
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I was just on Spike's site and all their rifles were over $1k. Priced higher than a 6920/6720. Except for one that was right at $900 and it had a 8-12 month wait. Spikes has been known to underestimate their wait times.

I had a Spikes and it was nice. It didn't see as many rounds as the others however. I know they did shady things w/ price gouging and lying about the materials they were using though.
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:57   #146
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I was just on Spike's site and all their rifles were over $1k. Priced higher than a 6920/6720. Except for one that was right at $900 and it had a 8-12 month wait. Spikes has been known to underestimate their wait times.

I had a Spikes and it was nice. It didn't see as many rounds as the others however. I know they did shady things w/ price gouging and lying about the materials they were using though.
There is zero evidence about Spikes lying about materials used. You made the blanket statement now it's up to you to prove and back up with links and evidence. Bet you can't. What's the excuse going to be this time. And please no help from the i dropped my slide and can't get back up welcher....
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:58   #147
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There is zero evidence about Spikes lying about materials used. You made the blanket statement now it's up to you to prove and back up with links and evidence. Bet you can't.
I have read an awful lot, on many sites, about Spikes...including a lot on M4C where a lot of members don't like Spikes.

But this is still the first time I have heard anything about them lying about materials used.

Very interested in seeing your evidence, mjkeat
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:29   #148
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
I was just on Spike's site and all their rifles were over $1k. Priced higher than a 6920/6720. Except for one that was right at $900 and it had a 8-12 month wait. Spikes has been known to underestimate their wait times.

I had a Spikes and it was nice. It didn't see as many rounds as the others however. I know they did shady things w/ price gouging and lying about the materials they were using though.
$879 and $865 is "right at $900?" Anyway, there are 2 carbines under $1000 and even if Spike's got called out to prove their "milspec" claims, that was years ago. They are "milspec" now and have posted their material certificates for the world to see.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...age=2&sort=20a
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:30   #149
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$879 and $865 is "right at $900?" Anyway, there are 2 carbines under $1000 and even if Spike's got called out to prove their "milspec" claims, that was years ago. They are "milspec" now and have posted their material certificates for the world to see.

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/...age=2&sort=20a
The price of a product on 8-12 month backorder doesn't interest me much, though...and probably doesn't interest a whole lot of buyers that are currently in the market, either.
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Old 11-14-2012, 19:30   #150
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[QUOTE=Bren;19606931]An AR is an AR - learn about them and you can make any one work as well as the next. They are like 1911's that way. High dollar brand names are for people who don't know enough to build their own.

Looking above, for example: Double Star makes some of the best parts I've ever had on an AR or a 1911 and I've built both with their parts - excellent quality, but the newbs don't know the name and don't know enough to see the differences, beyond brand names.[/QUOTE]

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