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Old 11-16-2012, 07:24   #221
steveksux
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
The BS comes from the evos as no one has been able to observe it happening, and it is a hard luck (my terminology) theory from the evos as it was postulated so as to explain something that Science cannot prove. You can believe it if you want to, but physical science laws strike it down as impossible
I think you should be aware that "evos" refer to biology, not cosmology, since you seem to have them confused with cosmologists. Perhaps you call them Cosmos?

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The Nebular Hypothesis (from the 1700's IIRC) has been repeatedly challenged and shown to be impossible due to actual scientific observations in the 20th century. The theory itself has had to evolve.

Attempts to explain both the expansion of the universe and the condensation of galaxies must be largely contradictory so long as gravitation is the only force field under consideration. For if the expansive kinetic energy of matter is adequate to give universal expansion against the gravitational field, it is adequate to prevent local condensation under gravity, and vice versa. That is why, essentially, the formation of galaxies is passed over with little comment in most systems of cosmology.” D.B. Larson, Universe in Motion (1984) page 8
If that were true, why don't black holes fly apart as fast as your crazy arguments do? Why doesn't all the loose dirt on Earth fly out into space and expand along with the atmosphere? Hell, as fast as Earth is spinning, it ought to be flinging excess stuff off into space from centrifugal force as well as the kinetic energy of an expanding universe. How do some galaxies collide if they're all moving away from each other? Why are planets moving around the sun instead of moving away from it???

Something seems to have overcome the expansion of the universe in some spots... if only we had a theory to explain this seeming impossibility. If only some force existed that exhibited a natural attraction between things with mass. Maybe someday science will solve that mystery.

I wonder what Isaac Newton would have called this mysterious force had he discovered GRAVITY?

Randy

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:36   #222
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And yet there were already two posts from me at the time you said you'd be "right back" that have yet to be addressed. Why didn't you do so when you "had come back"?
Perhaps he meant "Right back" in terms of cosmological time frames, (i.e. "right back" compared to 6000 years... )

Randy

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:52   #223
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
You keep quoting from another thread... hilarious
The quotes and claims you keep neglecting to support from that other thread...

It is hilarious Unfortunately you do not seem to grasp the source of the humor.

Randy

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Old 11-16-2012, 13:17   #224
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
clutching straws?

Okay, let me re-reiterate:

All the BELIEVABLE research, based on empirical scientific data, I could find indicates that stars cannot form by themselves.
1) What specific qualities or characteristics qualify research as "BELIEVABLE"?

2) What prevents you actually providing an example of this "BELIEVABLE research" supporting your position "stars cannot form by themselves" that you've repeatedly claim to have found?
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:27   #225
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Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Why... How... what...
Think, think, think.

Religious Issues
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:39   #226
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For 17 months now we've been waiting
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I'm certain you will scoff at this response too as you have already pre-determined that no evidence, no matter how compelling, will be accpeted by you.
Man, you guys have more patience than I do. I would've given up a long time ago and just let the guy think whatever he wants. Because it's pretty apparent that no matter how much evidence you shove into his face, he's still going to scoff at it. His brain just can't comprehend even the notion that he might be wrong. I say just pack up and move on, quit wasting your time, some people are just a lost cause.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:17   #227
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I say just pack up and move on, quit wasting your time, some people are just a lost cause.
It's not for his sake. He is a lost cause as you describe. It's for the other people that might be ensared in this con game called religion that we make the argument.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:35   #228
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Man, you guys have more patience than I do. I would've given up a long time ago and just let the guy think whatever he wants. Because it's pretty apparent that no matter how much evidence you shove into his face, he's still going to scoff at it. His brain just can't comprehend even the notion that he might be wrong.
Admittedly, science denial is an art form to the Young Earth Crowd given that they must reject core tenets of physics/cosmology, chemistry, biology, botany, geology, paleontology and anthropology. They have all the credibility of The Flat Earth Society, and it becomes more and more obvious with each passing day.

And of course they're rejecting all this science while living in a world surrounded by the comforts and conveniences that science provides.

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Old 11-17-2012, 04:42   #229
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Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Here's one.

Religious Issues
I'm referring to the shiny round thing in the image. The buildings in the foreground are not made of gasses clumping together.

It is possible to see it from Earth with the naked eye. But you have to look in the daytime.

Randy
(btw- The photo thing didn't escape me. At least you have a sense of humor. )

Neither you nor I were around to witness the creation of the Sun. It may very well be a star, or it may be totally different from other stars in the universe, but one thing is for sure, you are utilizing what you believe to have occurred (i.e., theory) coupled with a light smattering of historical science, which is no where even close to an actual, empirically scientific explanation for the "birth" of stars as promoted by the Big Bang, Oscillating Universe, and or any of the Stellar evolution theories.

ETA: let me bring you up to speed
empirical - adjective - \im-ˈpir-i-kəl\
1: originating in or based on observation or experience
2: relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:58   #230
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... But you have to look in the daytime.

Randy
Tempting rabbit trail to follow... but I'll save it for later.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:11   #231
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Neither you nor I were around to witness the creation of the Sun. It may very well be a star, or it may be totally different from other stars in the universe,
Except its not, different that is. It is a star, just like all the other stars we see.
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ETA: let me bring you up to speed
Bringing us up to speed would probably go a lot faster if you:

1. Stopped running away.
2. Started producing some actual evidence to support your claims.

I realize that neither one of those things is going to happen, but I don't want you to think you're making any kind of cogent argument for whatever position it is you actually hold.
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Last edited by Animal Mother; 11-17-2012 at 05:17..
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:16   #232
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TO RECAP ( and catch up...):

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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
... Scientifically: C'mon, we know for a fact the earth and all of its life did not come to being in 6 days. Even you have to admit that. And before you start... no one is going to claim that perhaps evolution or anything relating to an old Earth is how God brought creation about. Your book doesn't say that, your book says 6 days... and it's wrong.
I believe the Holy Bible. I used to believe the Earth and the Universe were both created around 6000 years ago; however, after studying a bit with a Rabbi online, I now believe the Earth and the Universe to be between 6000 and 13,000 years old.

But to directly respond to your point, no, I admit to no such thing as you imply.

I 100% believe the Earth and the Universe are not more than 13,000 years old, give or take the couple hundred or so years difference between the solar based Gregorian calendar and the lunar based Jewish calendar.

Quote me: "Moreover, I 100% believe both the Earth, the Universe, and everything else, seen and unseen, were created by the Creator and Him alone. He is Jehovah." - Peace Warrior (NOTE: I have no empirically based scientific basis for the previous statement, which makes it a 100% statement of faith.)

No, as for you, if you are honest, you too have no empirically derived scientific data as far as an origin for the Earth and the Universe. What you have is theory and beliefs based on that theory, which means you have to have just as much faith in what you believe as I do.

"Even you have to admit that."
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"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"It's a lot simpler to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled."

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 11-17-2012 at 05:20..
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:26   #233
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
... Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, Agustus was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that Quirinius was governor of Syria. This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of Quirinius in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. If Christ was born during the governorship of Quirinius then the fleeing from Herod to Egypt never occurred as Herod would have been long dead. If the mash up between Herod and Christ happened... Luke is a liar. This is the only place in the Gospel where one of the writers attempted to pinpoint the time in which Christ was born... and they got the historical details wrong. ...
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PEACE WARRIOR... I'M WAITING! ...Surely your magic book has the answers you need.
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Let's look at what Luke actually said.

Luke 2:1-3KJV

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
... Historically: Luke tells us that when Jesus was born, [Caesar Augustus] was conducting his census (which was Josephs reason for returning home) and that [Cyrenius] was governor of Syria.

This is impossible if Herod was alive because the governorship of [Cyrenius] in Syria didn't take place until as many as 10 years after the death of Herod. [blah blah blah yadda yadda...] ...
(Corrections in bold red.)

Wow, much ado still going on in this thread about nothing. (My bad actually, I should have went to my Holy Bible instead of to the book shelf for extra biblical references in the first place. mea culpa.)


The above KJV scripture quote is what Luke actually said of the entire matter. Now please, simply, tell me no more about this supposed contradiction?

For instance, the Holy Bible, and Luke, are merely saying that the first time people were taxed was when Cyrenius was governor of Syria. It did NOT say Cyrenius was governor of Syria at the time that Jesus was born.

Again, my bad as I should have went biblical first.

On to the next one....
(With added emphasis to my post #58.)

ETA: Found this since the thread started: http://ed5015.tripod.com/BArchaeologySupportsNT25.htm
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"It's a lot simpler to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled."

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 11-17-2012 at 05:40..
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:32   #234
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you too have no empirically derived scientific data as far as an origin for the Earth and the Universe.
You mean other than the overwhelming amount of data which supports both a 13.7 Billion year age for the Universe and a 4.5 Billion year age for Earth which has been repeatedly offered up in this charming interactions only for you to declare it to be not "real" science without further justification or explanation?
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:16   #235
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TO RECAP ( and catch up...):

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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
... That would be your modus operandi, not mine, as the still unrevealed great secred of "Lucy's knee" demonstrates. ...
(Emp. mine)


It is no secret, lucy is the name given to some fragments of bones and bones of a chimp, which not even 50% of the bones were collected.

What's more, the assorted bones and fragments that are named lucy today were found over the course of a calendar year, from right near the ground's surface to up to 200 feet deep, and linearly speaking up to a mile or so apart.

The knee itself is suspect for at least two reasons. One reason is what the person credited with finding lucy, Dr. Donald Johanson, a paleontologist, stated in an open lecture in Kansas City, Missouri, after inviting questions from the attending audience.

For example, the following question was asked, this is verbatim quote, “How far away from Lucy did you find the knee?” Dr. Donald Johanson stated, "[It was found] about 200 feet lower and two to three kilometers away." Then the same person asking this first question then immediately followed up with another question, this is a verbatim quote, "Then why are you sure it belonged to Lucy?," to which Dr. Donald Johanson answered, “Anatomical similarity.”




As far as "lucy" and other fossils supposedly supporting a macro-revolutionary theory, here is a list of things that evos themselves say about fossils in general and or in-particular when it comes to fossils being used to support evolution as a theory.
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"It's a lot simpler to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled."

Last edited by Peace Warrior; 11-17-2012 at 06:23..
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:24   #236
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
(With added emphasis to my post #58.)
You're just going to ignore the problems with these claims that have already been pointed out? My psychic powers are proven real again!!
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Are you planning on having a discussion or will you be following past practice and simply declaring things true and refusing to consider or address any evidence to the contrary?
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ETA: Found this since the thread started: http://ed5015.tripod.com/BArchaeologySupportsNT25.htm
Now you're going to depend on Jerry Vardaman and his "microletters" as filtered through an anonymous author? You've truly gone off the deep end here. Who was this other Quirinius? What other offices did he hold? Which gens did he belong to? Why is he absent from the list of known legates of Syria (which is the proper title for the time under discussion, not proconsul) ? Your "source" claims this individual held office "from 11 BC until Herod died." yet we have records showing that Marcus Titius, Gaius Sentius Saturninus, Publius Quinctilius Varus were the legates during this period. How do you reconcile these apparent contradictions, or will you simply ignore them in favor of the baseless claims which happen to support your beliefs, as I suspect?
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:39   #237
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Fossils don't prove the Earth is billions of years old, because they're not that old. However, they do prove the Earth is between tens of thousands and millions of years old.
Radiometric dating is what proves the Earth is billions of years old. ...
(Emp. mine)\

Radiometric dating does not prove the Earth to be billions of billions of years old. Evos already admit as much.

-am-, stratigraphy, specifically as it relates to the geologic column and the age of the Earth, is what drives radiometric dating. One the whole, radiometric dating relies on the cross checking from index fossils, specifically, their placement within the certain stratum, in order to determine if the radiometric dates are to be used or literally thrown out as inconclusive or in error.

Simply put, where it not for the predetermined dates derived from the geologic column, which by the way predates radiometric dating by over 50 years at least, then radiometric dating would have been thrown out by the evos themselves as something that was unreliable as well as a foolish methodology to scientifically determine the age of anything dug up and or found on the ground.


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...You've been offered numerous opportunities to produce evidence of a global flood. You've refused to do so. Do your indicate you'll now share it?
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"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:43   #238
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(Emp. mine)
Crazy yours too.
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It is no secret, lucy is the name given to some fragments of bones and bones of a chimp, which not even 50% of the bones were collected.
We've gone around about this one before too. If Lucy (an example of Australopithecus afarensis) is in fact a chimp, why are the ratios of her humerus to femur not within the range found in chimpanzees? In fact, the ratio falls between those of humans (71.8%) and chimps (97.8%) at 84.6%?
Quote:
What's more, the assorted bones and fragments that are named lucy today were found over the course of a calendar year, from right near the ground's surface to up to 200 feet deep, and linearly speaking up to a mile or so apart.
Completely false. The entirety of the bones were found in the same location over the course of three weeks of excavation.
Quote:
The knee itself is suspect for at least two reasons. One reason is what the person credited with finding lucy, Dr. Donald Johanson, a paleontologist, stated in an open lecture in Kansas City, Missouri, after inviting questions from the attending audience.

For example, the following question was asked, this is verbatim quote, “How far away from Lucy did you find the knee?” Dr. Donald Johanson stated, "[It was found] about 200 feet lower and two to three kilometers away." Then the same person asking this first question then immediately followed up with another question, this is a verbatim quote, "Then why are you sure it belonged to Lucy?," to which Dr. Donald Johanson answered, “Anatomical similarity.”
And this simply demonstrates either your continued intentional efforts at deception or utter inability to identify deception perpetrated by others which leads you to parrot it. Repeating Tom Willis' lies don't make them true, unfortunately for your position, they simply expose you. The errors of your claims are covered extensively in this article at Talkorigins. To summarize, the knee joint was a separate find from the previous (1973) dig season and identified as AL129-1, not part of Lucy's skeleton. A fact which could be verified by the simple expedient of looking at any of the available pictures of Lucy's skeleton, which show that there is no complete knee joint present. However, both the right tibia and left femur were recovered allowing scientists to analyze the structure of Lucy's knee joint.
Really? You're going to fall back on quote mining, again? Using the same quotes which have already been repeatedly debunked ? Do you not have any hint of integrity?
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:50   #239
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You're just going to ignore the problems with these claims that have already been pointed out? My psychic powers are proven real again!!

Now you're going to depend on Jerry Vardaman and his "microletters" as filtered through an anonymous author? You've truly gone off the deep end here. Who was this other Quirinius? What other offices did he hold? Which gens did he belong to? Why is he absent from the list of known legates of Syria (which is the proper title for the time under discussion, not proconsul) ? Your "source" claims this individual held office "from 11 BC until Herod died." yet we have records showing that Marcus Titius, Gaius Sentius Saturninus, Publius Quinctilius Varus were the legates during this period. How do you reconcile these apparent contradictions, or will you simply ignore them in favor of the baseless claims which happen to support your beliefs, as I suspect?
Did you forget the originally asserted contradiction? It was that Luke stated Jesus was born at the time when Cyrenius was governor of Syria, but this is NOT what Luke states.

This is a pure (to put it politely) misinterpretation, which I suspect was done so as to invent a contradiction in the first place. For the last time on this issue, here is what Luke stated and I do not see how anyone could interpret these words to mean Jesus was born when Cyrenius was governor.


Luke 2:1-3KJV

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. ([And] this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

Luke says nothing of the kind and there is no contradiction. Period.
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“After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it.” - William S. Burroughs
"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
"Love 'Em All!!! Let Jehovah sort 'em out." - The Holy Bible
"It's a lot simpler to fool people than it is to convince them they've been fooled."
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:52   #240
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(Emp. mine)\

Radiometric dating does not prove the Earth to be billions of billions of years old. Evos already admit as much.
I suppose asking for evidence of this would be too much?
Quote:
-am-, stratigraphy, specifically as it relates to the geologic column and the age of the Earth, is what drives radiometric dating. One the whole, radiometric dating relies on the cross checking from index fossils, specifically, their placement within the certain stratum, in order to determine if the radiometric dates are to be used or literally thrown out as inconclusive or in error.
Seriously, we're going to go through this, again? Stratigraphy is not what drives radiometric dating, the known decay rate of radioactive isotopes is.
Quote:
Simply put, where it not for the predetermined dates derived from the geologic column, which by the way predates radiometric dating by over 50 years at least, then radiometric dating would have been thrown out by the evos themselves as something that was unreliable as well as a foolish methodology to scientifically determine the age of anything dug up and or found on the ground.
Another complete falsehood. How does the geologic column affect the decay of uranium-235 to lead-207 or uranium-238 to lead-206?
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