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Old 10-07-2012, 13:54   #51
jbglock
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I don't know one leo that thinks only people in le should have guns. I call BS for that. Some things are opinions. Some are outright lies.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:05   #52
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Who says they do? From what I see, most OC stops are caused by citizens calling in "man with a gun". They have to check it out.

When you get pulled over for speeding, aren't they also "assuming" the possibility that you may pull out a gun and kill them?
I would agree. Society has changed over the years. After the late 80's the cops no longer liked people getting out of the car without reason. Prior to that it was almost normal to get out and chat with an officer and even sit in the car with them while they wrote a ticket. But violence has changed things.

For oc stops I agree that most are people calling in with "man with a gun" calls. Some officers do act like people are the enemy. But when I see a lot of these taped confrontations people are just trying to set the leo up and that is also wrong.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:18   #53
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Originally Posted by jbglock View Post
I don't know one leo that thinks only people in le should have guns. I call BS for that. Some things are opinions. Some are outright lies.

Or at least often repeated internet "wisdom" that has little connection to the real world. Surveys of even police chiefs suggest that a majority agree in some cases citizens being armed reduces crime. Even in one of the most anti gun major cities in the only state that still does not have concealed carry several police groups have come out in favor of concealed carry legislation http://survivalandprosperity.com/tag...der-of-police/
http://www.aphf.org/surveyresults.pdf
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Old 10-07-2012, 16:16   #54
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
Or at least often repeated internet "wisdom" that has little connection to the real world. Surveys of even police chiefs suggest that a majority agree in some cases citizens being armed reduces crime. Even in one of the most anti gun major cities in the only state that still does not have concealed carry several police groups have come out in favor of concealed carry legislation http://survivalandprosperity.com/tag...der-of-police/
http://www.aphf.org/surveyresults.pdf
I guess that just doesn't fit with whatever people think they know from watching TV, reading some radical anti-government web site, or other baloney. Personally I think if more of the public carry concealed or openly carried their really would be less crime. I don't even agree with concealed carry as it does exist in my state. I think if you can obtain a handgun permit then you should only be required to take the class to get a concealed carry permit and NOT be charged for this by the state.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:31   #55
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I don't assume someone is or isn't a criminal. I'm even less apt to assume something about someone carrying a gun. I support open carry. But in an urban area, it's a cry for attention. A permit holder looking to be noticed is going to get noticed at some point, and this can sometimes cause a delay in their day while facts are checked rather than assumptions made. I prefer to blend rather than advertise.
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Why do LEOs assume that OCers are criminals? I don't understand.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:02   #56
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Many in LE believe that only LE should carry weapons.
Not true. If I pull someone over that has a cpl license and they are not carrying their gun, I ask them "why not. I would if I were you" It is not the LAW ABIDING citizens carrying a firearm we are worried about. Most officers i know do not have a problem with that. Criminals typically do not get their guns legally. Major difference.
As for the police stopping someone open carrying. Do realize how many calls from citizens the police get on "person with a gun"? Police then have to respond and "check out" that person with a gun. But does not mean the police are against that.

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Old 11-18-2012, 12:26   #57
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I don't assume someone is or isn't a criminal. I'm even less apt to assume something about someone carrying a gun. I support open carry. But in an urban area, it's a cry for attention. A permit holder looking to be noticed is going to get noticed at some point, and this can sometimes cause a delay in their day while facts are checked rather than assumptions made. I prefer to blend rather than advertise.
ome people carry openly for good, legal reason. Example - I OC in NH because I don't have an out-of-state CCW permit yet.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:56   #58
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Many in LE believe that only LE should carry weapons.
I've only heard this on the internet.

(Is that proof enough it must be true? IDK).
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Old 11-22-2012, 13:16   #59
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Depending on the area I find most cops are in favor of citizens being armed. Now there are some who believe it should be concealed so they will harass people who OC or they do not know OC is legal so then they harass. Through people actually OCing many LEO have been educated on the legality of OC.
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Old 11-22-2012, 13:29   #60
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LE are educated on OC by lawyers and certified instructors in and after their academy, not by random permittees. While a select few may have difficulty computing why someone would do that (carry on a permit with the weapon purposely on display) intentionally in an urban setting, by and large, the average police officer is far more conversant with legal issues, to include those related to permittee carry, than the general non-LE/non lawyer public, except on the internet. . On the internet, the average permittee shoots more accurately than any cop, trains more/better/longer than anyone in law enforcement, makes more money than anyone in law enforcement, knows the law and has a grasp of constitutional considerations far beyond the grasp of the average supreme court justice, and has fresher breath than anyone with a real badge. But in reality, there's always room for improvement and mature discourse from both camps. Can does not equal should. But saying someone shouldn't do something just because another party thinks it unwise is no way to live. Carry on! Just do it in a pretty holster.
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Old 11-22-2012, 14:20   #61
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I'm not saying it's the OCer who educates the cop. It's the fact the OCer gets stopped then contacts the department about their being stopped that leads to the officers being educated by instructors or attorneys. And you're right most in the general public do not know the laws well at all. I had one guy at a shooting range tell me I committed a felony by transporting my pistol in a case unloaded in the trunk of my vehicle. However there are also many in law enforcement that do not know the law which leads to them stopping people for no reason.

ETA: The "many" is really down to "few" in Michigan at least.
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Old 11-22-2012, 14:46   #62
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Well said sir.
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Old 11-22-2012, 15:12   #63
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Why are there no man with a book calls?
Because "words will never hurt you"
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Old 11-22-2012, 15:38   #64
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Already posted

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Old 11-22-2012, 16:03   #65
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if an officer responds to an armed subject call, and you are the armed subject, then yes you will likely by asked for identification and yes you are being detained.

yes you will need to present your identification and yes the officer may also run the serial number to check for stolen.

you can resist the officer's demands but i promise it likely won't end well for you.

remember you are the reason for the call for service.

don't be mad at the officer, be mad at the hoplophobiac who called you in.

or, be mad at liberals who created all the hoplophobia in the first place.

or maybe just be mad at yourself for walking around with an exposed gun in a world of hoplophobiacs.

yes it's sad but it's the world we live in and at this point it appears there's no going back.
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Old 11-22-2012, 16:13   #66
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It's all about control.
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Old 11-22-2012, 16:52   #67
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if an officer responds to an armed subject call, and you are the armed subject, then yes you will likely by asked for identification and yes you are being detained.
Unlawful detainment

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yes you will need to present your identification and yes the officer may also run the serial number to check for stolen.
My state is not a stop and ID state. So there is no need to present my ID and no they may not lawfully run the serial number on my gun. However if they do so I will not resist.

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you can resist the officer's demands but i promise it likely won't end well for you.
Sure I can but I won't. If he wants to violate my rights that's fine. The department can pay for that later.

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remember you are the reason for the call for service.
I'm breaking no law and I did not call myself in.

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don't be mad at the officer, be mad at the hoplophobiac who called you in.
Not mad at the cop unless he detains me.

Quote:
or, be mad at liberals who created all the hoplophobia in the first place.
I am.

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or maybe just be mad at yourself for walking around with an exposed gun in a world of hoplophobiacs.
I'm not. I probably would never have gotten into open carry had the age to get a CPL be 18 instead of 21 (I'm 20 now). So I'd say blame the state of Michigan for getting me into open carry.

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yes it's sad but it's the world we live in and at this point it appears there's no going back.
The public and law enforcement are becoming well educated regarding open carry and stops are becoming few and far between. Ideally there should be none but that just comes from education. 99% of cops are great guys and many of them know open carry is legal. Even the ones who don't like it realize it's legal and leave those who OC alone.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:59   #68
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Because by design a book is not intended to be a deadly weapon. a firearm is. And so far we don't have people taking their books into schools, playgrounds, churches, malls, and theaters and killing folks with their book.

If a gun is to be viewed no different than a book why not carry a book for self defense and deterrent instead of a gun?
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:00   #69
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Who says they do? From what I see, most OC stops are caused by citizens calling in "man with a gun". They have to check it out.

When you get pulled over for speeding, aren't they also "assuming" the possibility that you may pull out a gun and kill them?
Soccer moms are guilty.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:06   #70
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I'm still trying to firgure out what people mean when they say they Open Carry? Are all these open carry people tucking their shirt in? I'm calling a foul right there. Why are you tucking your shirt in goobers? LOL. I carry a G36 in a high ride OWB holster with my shirt untucked 4-5 days a week. I find that most people are to preoccupied with their lives to notice a slight bulge on my hip.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:50   #71
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Not true. If I pull someone over that has a cpl license and they are not carrying their gun, I ask them "why not. I would if I were you" It is not the LAW ABIDING citizens carrying a firearm we are worried about. Most officers i know do not have a problem with that. Criminals typically do not get their guns legally. Major difference.
I have never had an issue when pulled over with a firearm. One time I offered the information as the driver was presenting her license and registration and the other I was driving and the weapons question preceeded the officer asking for my license and registration. Both stops ended without incident. The stop where I offered the information, the officer asked where the firearm was and I responded that it was in the center console. All he said was to leave it where it was and that was the end of it. The other stop the officer disarmed me and ran the serial. He came back and handed me my firearm, asked me not to reload it until he left, and let me go with no ticket.
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As for the police stopping someone open carrying. Do realize how many calls from citizens the police get on "person with a gun"? Police then have to respond and "check out" that person with a gun. But does not mean the police are against that.
The irony of it is that you would think a criminal would not OC to begin with. I would imagine someone intent on commiting a crime would want the least amount of people possible to see the gun until he was actually using it. But then again some criminals do take the cake when it comes to deserving the Darwin award.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:55   #72
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I'm still trying to firgure out what people mean when they say they Open Carry? Are all these open carry people tucking their shirt in? I'm calling a foul right there. Why are you tucking your shirt in goobers? LOL. I carry a G36 in a high ride OWB holster with my shirt untucked 4-5 days a week. I find that most people are to preoccupied with their lives to notice a slight bulge on my hip.
My carry weapon is chosen by what I am wearing. Loose fitting untucked shirt and it is either a G27 or a G19 in an OWB holster. Dress clothes and it is a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster. Even if OC was legal in my state, I would never want the attention. I appreciate the job that most police officers do, however I am going to limit my chance of interaction with them whil on the job as much as possible, especially when it concerns a firearm. Although most are ok from my experience, not all officers do share the view that civilians should be carrying weapons.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:52   #73
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My carry weapon is chosen by what I am wearing. Loose fitting untucked shirt and it is either a G27 or a G19 in an OWB holster. Dress clothes and it is a Ruger LCP in a pocket holster. Even if OC was legal in my state, I would never want the attention. I appreciate the job that most police officers do, however I am going to limit my chance of interaction with them whil on the job as much as possible, especially when it concerns a firearm. Although most are ok from my experience, not all officers do share the view that civilians should be carrying weapons.
I agree that it's a wise policy to limit interaction with LE.
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Old 11-23-2012, 06:58   #74
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:35   #75
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My opinion is if you are going to openly carry a gun in public, you have no right to be upset about the attention it causes. Many people are afraid of guns and also have no possible idea what a STRANGER's intentions are when they see a gun, hence the man with gun calls that officers are obligated to investigate.
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