[faawrenchbndr]

Is the finish CeraKote?

[MajorD]

I have posted this in other forums and the "differences" between the true issue gun and the civilian version may relate to the fact the contract (just like FN's M16 contract) specified Colt could not sell the same gun on the commercial market. This may be Colts way of:
1) cashing in on the hype associated with USMC issed gear
2) getting around the no civilian sales prohibition.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

Is the finish CeraKote?

I believe so. Cerakote over stainless steel.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by MajorD

I have posted this in other forums and the "differences" between the true issue gun and the civilian version may relate to the fact the contract (just like FN's M16 contract) specified Colt could not sell the same gun on the commercial market. This may be Colts way of:
1) cashing in on the hype associated with USMC issed gear
2) getting around the no civilian sales prohibition.

Of course Colt is cashing in on the USMC SOC hype. Not unlike HK and their SOCOM pistol or Beretta and the M9 or Springfield Armory on their FBI contract, etc.

And you're right on Point 2 as well. Change just enough so that it isn't 100% GI then sell it.

[fnfalman]

The lanyard loop is da shiznit. Now that's a proper combat handgun.

[GWG19]

Originally Posted by banger

Look, concerning price versus value.

To the "arm chair warrior", he will pay whatever it cost, simply to point to his treasured pistol and tell his friend that that's the same pistol that the Marines carry.

That means it kills your enemies "deader".

Consider, the 1873 Colt Single Action Army has been obsolete for nearly a century....Yet...the Colt Custom shop still cranks them out for over $1500.00 a pop.

AND....insult to injury, they are not even authentic to the originals. Yet... people continue to buy them.

As to the lack of quality control....It does not matter!

Most will never even be fired.

Returning to my Peace Maker example, until the growth of "Cowboy action shooting" most of the modern 1873's were never fired or even cocked.

Look no further than a Gun Show in your area.

With little trouble you will almost certainly find a N.I.B. third generation pistol still with it's tags and zip tie on the hammer.

Now try to find one that is used, but good condition...

I'll bet you can't find one.

Funny story about "Cowboy" shooters...many of those guy's bought the Colts form collectors who owned them for years, only to find out that they were defective and needed to be returned to Colt to have them corrected.

Timing issues, aiming issues, ever firing issues.

Colt made a "bundle" cranking those puppies out...Knowing that they would likely never be fired.

In closing...Colt Firearms Mfg. Co. is NOT your friend.

They are nearly Bankrupt for a reason.

And your SASS number and Alias is?
I have several 3rd generation Colts. No problems with any of mine.
Having been involved in SASS since 2000 I have not heard of any of the things you speak of.

The only complaint I have ever heard is, is that they are not as tough as a Ruger. Well NS different internal design.

As far as Colt not being your friend. Really? I had a Colt Blue box, I was damaged by one of my pups. Chewed on. So I called Colt. They sent me a new box I paid shipping.

[Tophatter]

Originally Posted by MD357

I get that. Please expound on your theory of significance.
Hint: Hand fitting costs money and generally amounts to higher quality. So the consumer models will supposedly have a higher amount of fit and finish.

My "theory of significance" is that they are not going to be identical to the guns given to the MARSOC guys, an assertion you seemed to blow a gasket over despite now agreeing with.

[faawrenchbndr]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

I believe so. Cerakote over stainless steel.

Thanks,.......I actually learned something fron this thread.

[glock2740]

Originally Posted by 3rdgen40

Well, it does come with a Pelican case AND an Otis cleaning kit.

Oh. Well in that case, I change my mind.

[glock2740]

Originally Posted by MD357

Again, what would you know without even picking one up?

I know from looking at it and looking at the specs, that I would not pay 2K for one. Period. If you want one, knock yourself out. I know as much about it as you do. Have you picked one up and can speak from firsthand knowledge about how great they are and can justify the price?

[Road Dog]

Is it a series 80?

[glock2740]

Originally Posted by Road Dog

Is it a series 80?

Yes it is.

[glock2740]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

I believe so. Cerakote over stainless steel.

I know it has stainless parts, but have not heard that it has a stainless slide and frame too. Would make sense, as they said the stainless "parts" were to help in harsh conditions.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr

Thanks,.......I actually learned something fron this thread.

Colt must have bought stock in Cerakote or something because they put that over practically everything nowadays.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by glock2740

I know it has stainless parts, but have not heard that it has a stainless slide and frame too. Would make sense, as they said the stainless "parts" were to help in harsh conditions.

As you already know, it's based on the Rail Gun series and the Rail Gun series (3-options) all have stainless steel slides, one option has blued frame, the other option has bare SS slide mated to cerakoted SS frame, and the third option has cerakoted SS slide mated to cerakoted SS frame.

I believe that the USMC pistol is the third option with cerakoted everything (different color, of course) and some minor cosmetic changes (G10 grip panels for one).

So it's essentially a Rail Gun with a paint job and G10 grip panels. As far as the civilian version goes, the video claims that it comes from the custom shop with hand fitting...what does that mean? How much hand fitting? Is it worth the extra $800 over the standard Rail Gun?

I don't know and I ain't the one to cough out two Ks to find out. I like the Gyrines just fine but I don't feel the compunction to carry or own a gun that looks like a MEUSOC gun.

[Rinspeed]

Looks more like Desert White than Desert Tan.









http://sheriffjimwilson.com/2012/10/...ne-corps-colt/

[MD357]

Originally Posted by Tophatter

My "theory of significance" is that they are not going to be identical to the guns given to the MARSOC guys, an assertion you seemed to blow a gasket over despite now agreeing with.

Not blowing a gasket by any means, just didn't understand how hand fitting would be a minus? As asked previously, care to elaborate the significance?

[MD357]

I know from looking at it and looking at the specs, that I would not pay 2K for one. Period.

I think you've stated this several times but I'm not really interested if you'd buy one or not. I'm interested to know what the gun will be without people casting worthless opinions based on pics in lieu of fact. The Colt WW reproduction I did own that came out of the Custom Shop was a well built 1911. Possibly these might be nice aswell? I'm just interested/curious. Who knows maybe they'll drop the ball, but I'd like to handle one before making any assumptions.

[Tophatter]

Originally Posted by MD357

Not blowing a gasket by any means, just didn't understand how hand fitting would be a minus?

Well, as far as the Marines are concerned, it's a minus because they've already gone down the hand fitting road with the old MEU(SOC) M45. The reason they're picking up the Rail Gun to begin with is that the Precision Weapons Shop on Quantico simply can't keep up with the demand for both more hand-built 1911s, and maintenance on the ones already out.

The solicitation for an off-the-shelf replacement specifically required a 1911 that was capable of parts interchangeability - this is, according to some documentation, the main reason that Springfield's MC Operator lost out. The Colt, on the other hand, demonstrated parts interchangeability between all test guns.

For the Marines, hand fitting is a minus because it sets them right back on the path of being unable to keep up with maintenance demands, the path they've already gone down. For the consumer? It's not a minus.

Unless you want exactly what the Marines will be issuing, anyway. I personally don't, but then I'm not likely to buy it regardless. Doesn't keep me from feeling mildly annoyed when gun companies slap a misleading label on a commercialized version of a gun and sell it to the public as the real deal. Same thing annoyed me about the later P226 Navy from Sig.

[MD357]

For the consumer? It's not a minus.

Red herring ramblings aside, this is the point.

Now you can get annoyed that it's not exactly the same because it's likely to be built better but the specs are the same aside from possibly closer fitting.

Just about every 1911 maker has cheesy marketing now, I'd say this one will be as close to the original as they come. Don't see anything as misleading when it's supposedly going to be a step UP from the original.

[Tophatter]

Originally Posted by MD357

Red herring ramblings aside, this is the point.

Now you can get annoyed that it's not exactly the same because it's likely to be built better but the specs are the same aside from possibly closer fitting.

Just about every 1911 maker has cheesy marketing now, I'd say this one will be as close to the original as they come. Don't see anything as misleading when it's supposedly going to be a step UP from the original.

I wouldn't call it red herring rambling. What if I wanted a 1911 with easy rebuilding potential due to parts interchangeability? I actually do, by the way.

As for being built 'better,' time will tell. Built differently, certainly. Just depends on what you're after. I've already got a bank vault-tight 1911 that can do 1" groups at 50 yards; what I'd like to find is one I can abuse as badly as my HKs and still have it run like a sewing machine. I suspect that's what the Marines are after, too, and likely why they picked a looser tolerance production gun over a hand fit - in addition to the primary requirement of interchangeability, of course.

[MD357]

What if I wanted a 1911 with easy rebuilding potential due to parts interchangeability? I actually do, by the way.

How would "interchangeability" be significant between the two? Be VERY specific as in which parts are you speaking of that you believe would be easier to swap vs how often you believe.... as a civilian.... you'll need to swap.

Just depends on what you're after. I've already got a bank vault-tight 1911 that can do 1" groups at 50 yards; what I'd like to find is one I can abuse as badly as my HKs and still have it run like a sewing machine. I suspect that's what the Marines are after, too, and likely why they picked a looser tolerance production gun over a hand fit - in addition to the primary requirement of interchangeability, of course.

Yeah the whole myth of needing looser tolerances is wasted on those that don't know any better. Granted that's just my opinion of seeing multiple hand fit 1911s go into some pretty significant round counts including ~100K rounds. I wager that the logistics of price and time vs need was a factor. Essentially, they probably don't have the time or money to wait for thousands of hand fit customs. They probably figure since the old Colt did the job for what the military needed, these would too.

Also FWIW, from what I've seen H&Ks don't take abuse well.

[AKRover]

This is an entertaining thread. I've seen a lot mention to a $2K price tag for this pistol but I'm still confused where this number is coming from. Anyone have a link or some support of this number?

[MD357]

Originally Posted by AKRover

This is an entertaining thread. I've seen a lot mention to a $2K price tag for this pistol but I'm still confused where this number is coming from. Anyone have a link or some support of this number?

I read on another forum that MSRP is $1999. I have no idea if that's true because of all the misinformation running around.

[Tophatter]

Originally Posted by MD357

How would "interchangeability" be significant between the two? Be VERY specific as in which parts are you speaking of that you believe would be easier to swap vs how often you believe.... as a civilian.... you'll need to swap.

As a civilian? I rarely need to swap much of anything. I also have never needed my JHPs to expand, but I still like the feature.

Yeah the whole myth of needing looser tolerances is wasted on those that don't know any better. Granted that's just my opinion of seeing multiple hand fit 1911s go into some pretty significant round counts including ~100K rounds.

I'm not sure round counts have much to do with getting it muddy, sandy, bloody, etc., but I'd generally prefer a looser-fit 1911 if I had to, say, swim ashore and take a beach.

I wager that the logistics of price and time vs need was a factor. Essentially, they probably don't have the time or money to wait for thousands of hand fit customs. They probably figure since the old Colt did the job for what the military needed, these would too.

Yep, as I said, they simply can't afford to have these guns needing to go back to gunsmiths for rebuilds as frequently as the old hand-built MEU(SOC) pistols were needing to go.

Also FWIW, from what I've seen H&Ks don't take abuse well.

I wouldn't buy one, then, were I you.

Bottom line on this thing: same parts, built differently. If that equals the same gun to you, so be it.