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Old 11-22-2012, 03:46   #1
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 13,525


I was reading your discourse with Mas on the GATE self defense forum. If you don't mind me asking, I am curious as to why you choose to load Winchester Black Talons at 900 FPS in your G29 as opposed to a 1200 FPS loading.

By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to the Ten Ring.

Quoting the post for the ten ring guys:

Originally Posted by Tazz10m View Post

Hi Mas, nice to chat with you again. Last time was at the SHOT Show back in '96 at the Haarts booth.

I hear what you're saying, which is why i'm so into proper bullet/load selection, etc. There is a bit of a dilemma that each of us that aims to defend ourselves inevitably has to deal with and that is the fact that we never really know everything we are going to be up against in a personal defense situation, and so it so important to try to research and pick what might be best for the widest variety of situation/target/barrier combinations we might encounter. We never know what kind of clothing an attacker might wear, or if the attacker is going to be using cover to attack from, (like a car), or how massive and solid and "big boned" an attacker might be. Where i live, in any given day, at any moment, the attacker could be a big huge human, or a good sized black bear... or a little "pip squeak"... There is no time to "switch loads" for one or the other.

If someone attacks you with a gun from the cover of a car and has you pinned down it's best to have a weapon/load combo capable of at least having a chance of punching through the car and still having enough "damaging potential" to hit the guy and stop him. One never knows how much bone or whatever might hinder that process.

So, my school of thought is to have the most powerful and versatile weapon that is still practical for "everyday" use. For me, right now, that's a Glock 29 with a 20 round mag filled with 200gr Black Talons. I figure i'm lucky if i get 900 fps out of the combo. Personally, i'd rather have them kicking out at 1200 fps, but that's another story. Fact is i like the bullet design (a heavy bullet with hard "knuckles" on the leading edge to potentially break bone and "punch through" followed by the razor sharp "talons" if i get lucky on the expansion, and enough left over "umph" to hopefully nail and damage the spine) and it's proven to work pretty well in the wide variety of testing i've done.

At any rate... the idea is to be able to punch through whatever is in the way and get to the so-called "vitals" and do as much incapacitating damage to the attacker(s) as possible in order to "shut him/her/them down" and "stop" the attack as quickly and efficiently as possible.

An FMJ or "ball round" in a handgun is absolutely out of the question as it's highly likely to just "zip through", do minimal damage to vitals, and keep going with plenty of left over velocity into who-knows-what or whom that is not the intended target, the attacker. It's just irresponsible from the start, in my thinking.

With a properly designed hollow point bullet and velocity, the bullet is most likely going to flatten out or otherwise change shape significantly after hitting. This means that if it does penetrate beyond the intended attacker, it is likely already lost almost all of its velocity and that combined with the flattened front end or tumbling, etc., is not likely to do any real significant damage to whatever it might hit. In other words, it has lost pretty much all of it's "damage-ability"... and so, not likely to really cause much harm, if any, to "innocents"... and any damage it might cause could more than likely be "fixed up" by a good doctor.

So, "overpenetration that causes damage to an innocent" is really, more or less, in the same category of a "well intentioned miss", except the miss has the potential to do a whole lot more damage to an innocent.

A good example is in a crowded theater or shopping mall situation. You can't "miss", BUT, you HAVE to do SOMETHING... and one has to be instantly ready to properly and accurately act if "talking the attacker down" doesn't work. And, frankly, based on experience, sometimes the "talking step", should just be completely skipped.

At a certain point, over-thinking a dire emergency situation is potentially going to get WAY more innocent people killed than a well intentioned miss... and so "you just got to shoot 'em".

Sorry for the long post.
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
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