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Old 11-21-2012, 22:07   #21
NorthCarolinaLiberty
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I'd say it might depend on your context. Some people say that religion has gone downhill since age of enlightenment. You could even trace it back to tthe Renaissance.

I think religion and morality are fairly stable overall. The rise of the US had more to do with the dovetailing of the Industrial Revolution and abundant resources. Sucess was a mix of some great effort, but also some lazy exploitation. Those days are over, and what remains is a bloated America delusional about its glory days. The descent will be so protracted that a lot of us desperate people will get bitter and be at each others throats.

China will eventually run the same cycle of growth, mistakes and redemption. Their current and enormous investment in Africa will realize much success, but also be marred by some terrible exploitations.
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Old 11-22-2012, 21:48   #22
Andy123
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In a word, no.

Leftist atheists have tried this before, in the French, Bolshevik, and Nazi Revolutions, and failed horribly. Turning away from God, rejecting "square" values, promoting sodomy and discouraging traditional marriage as "freedom", taking the Lord's Prayer out of public schools, have all contributed to the mess we're now in.

To your credit, you see that we're heading downhill fast. But the only answer that's going to work is turning back to Jesus. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth.

The truth shall set you free.
I'm curious, when people saw the world going down hill around the time that people went from worshiping dozens of gods to one god, if they said the same thing.

"He, the world is going to hell because all the other gods are jealous"

Remember, from the perspective of a Roman, Christians are just one god away from being an atheist.
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Old 11-23-2012, 13:45   #23
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it all depends on what you consider ethical.

for christians, ethics are rooted in the holy bible.

for atheists, ethics are just a construct of an evolved human brain, the chance product of random particles bouncing around haphazardly in a purposeless environment.

one is eternal, unchanging, necessary, universal, and certain.

the other is relative, subject to revision based on society's whims.

for example, christians will always believe it is wrong to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome.

atheists, however, will say that someday it may be okay to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome if society collectively decides it is okay (e.g. eugenics).

choose your side wisely.
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Old 11-23-2012, 14:00   #24
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it all depends on what you consider ethical.

for christians, ethics are rooted in the holy bible.

for atheists, ethics are just a construct of an evolved human brain, the chance product of random particles bouncing around haphazardly in a purposeless environment.

one is eternal, unchanging, necessary, universal, and certain.

the other is relative, subject to revision based on society's whims.

for example, christians will always believe it is wrong to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome.
What if God orders that the child die? Along with his parents, all other relatives and a collection of neighbors, is it still wrong in that instance? What if the child insults his parents?
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Old 11-23-2012, 14:10   #25
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Shinto and Buddhism are most likely an offshoot of Judaism. The Brahma's, most likely from Abraham.
Is this a typo? Judaism? Abraham?
If you intended to post that, what makes you think this is the case?

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 11-23-2012 at 14:11..
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Old 11-23-2012, 15:12   #26
ArtificialGrape
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for christians, ethics are rooted in the holy bible.

for atheists, ethics are just a construct of an evolved human brain, the chance product of random particles bouncing around haphazardly in a purposeless environment.

one is eternal, unchanging, necessary, universal, and certain.

the other is relative, subject to revision based on society's whims.

for example, christians will always believe it is wrong to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome.
Unless of course that child with downs strikes or curses a parent in which case they should be put to death -- Exodus 21:15, Leviticus 20:9

And a few other examples of your "eternal, unchanging, necessary, universal, and certain" morality:
  • Beating a slave to the extent that they recover in 2 days (it's your right since they're your property) -- Exodus 21:20
  • Homosexuals should be put to death -- Leviticus 20:13
  • Adulterers should be put to death -- Leviticus 20:10
  • Witches should be put to death -- Exodus 22:17
  • Fortunetellers should be put to death -- Leviticus 20:27
  • Nonbelievers should be put to death -- Chronicles 15:13
  • A woman who was not a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death on her father's doorstep -- Deuteronomy 22:13-21
  • Rape victims (if betrothed and raped in town and not heard screaming) should be put to death -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Gotta love the classics.

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:04   #27
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What if God orders that the child die? Along with his parents, all other relatives and a collection of neighbors, is it still wrong in that instance? What if the child insults his parents?
Jesus is God. Jesus said that if any harm one of these little ones (children), it would be better that they have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea.

You seem to be thinking of Marxism (or maybe Islam). The Party has a track record of murdering children if they are deemed "counterrevolutionary", and that "his parents, all other relatives and a collection of neighbors" be hauled off in cattle cars to a remote, brutal gulag, to die of starvation, overwork, beatings, being shot, or exposure to the elements.
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Old 11-24-2012, 18:10   #28
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Jesus is God. Jesus said that if any harm one of these little ones (children), it would be better that they have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea.
If Jesus is God, isn't it equally true that Jesus ordered the slaughter of the Canaanites?
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You seem to be thinking of Marxism (or maybe Islam). The Party has a track record of murdering children if they are deemed "counterrevolutionary", and that "his parents, all other relatives and a collection of neighbors" be hauled off in cattle cars to a remote, brutal gulag, to die of starvation, overwork, beatings, being shot, or exposure to the elements.
Wrong, you're the one who's obsessed with Marxism and Islam, not me.
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Old 11-24-2012, 18:50   #29
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it all depends on what you consider ethical.

for christians, ethics are rooted in the holy bible.

for atheists, ethics are just a construct of an evolved human brain, the chance product of random particles bouncing around haphazardly in a purposeless environment.

one is eternal, unchanging, necessary, universal, and certain.

the other is relative, subject to revision based on society's whims.

for example, christians will always believe it is wrong to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome.

atheists, however, will say that someday it may be okay to kill a 5 year old with downs syndrome if society collectively decides it is okay (e.g. eugenics).

choose your side wisely.
The above post is real dumb.

Last edited by juggy4711; 11-24-2012 at 18:51..
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:29   #30
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If Jesus is God, isn't it equally true that Jesus ordered the slaughter of the Canaanites?
Wrong, you're the one who's obsessed with Marxism and Islam, not me.
God judged certain ancient sinners, and you, in your arrogance, second-guess Him.

You and your fellow-traveler leftists defend Marxism and Islam, and then lie that you don't.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:38   #31
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The above post is real dumb.
That's your (foolish) opinion, and you are entitled to it.

But you know something that's really dumb? The unthinkably deep debt-hole that Leftists have dug us, and our children and their children, into. The author of, "After America, Get Ready For Armageddon", calls it, "The Stupidity of Broke".
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:25   #32
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That's your (foolish) opinion, and you are entitled to it.

But you know something that's really dumb? The unthinkably deep debt-hole that Leftists have dug us, and our children and their children, into. The author of, "After America, Get Ready For Armageddon", calls it, "The Stupidity of Broke".
Not sure what the second part of your post has to do with the post I quoted but yes the out of control spending is a terrible thing.

As for the first part, any chance you could cite any atheist ever claiming that "ethics are just a construct of an evolved human brain, the chance product of random particles bouncing around haphazardly in a purposeless environment"?

I seriously doubt you can as I know of no atheists that believe particles bounce around at random in a purposeless environment. And as for eugenics, I'm sure you can find a few assclowns that might think that way, but they would be a vast minority much like Christians that believe it is ok to murder abortion doctors. So yeah it was real dumb.

Last edited by juggy4711; 11-26-2012 at 21:26..
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:45   #33
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God judged certain ancient sinners, and you, in your arrogance, second-guess Him.
I tend to do that with anyone who commands or participates in genocide. I'll note that you're ok with it, as long as the right person passes on the order.
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You and your fellow-traveler leftists defend Marxism and Islam, and then lie that you don't.
I don't do either of those things, except in the context of that whole freedom of religion thing you so despise. Of course, in your fevered imagination, I'm sure that's twisted into something completely different.
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Old 11-27-2012, 14:42   #34
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I don't do either of those things (support Marxism or Islam), except in the context of that whole freedom of religion thing you so despise.
Translation: "Animal Mother supports Marxism and Islam".
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Old 11-27-2012, 15:28   #35
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Translation: "Animal Mother supports Marxism and Islam".
You kinda beat around the bush most of the time and just spew propaganda. But this statement right here is very telling. Do you believe that freedom of religion is supporting terrorism? One of the KEY founding ideals of this nation is supporting terrorism?

Because I might be inclined to agree with you, but you wouldn't like the measures I'd be willing to take to safeguard this nation from Islam. I would ban all religion... including yours. It can be something you do in your home... but it stays there. No churches, no mosques, nothing. perhaps freedom of religion in this nation is supporting terrorism. Maybe it's time we do away with religion. All of it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 15:58   #36
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It seems that leftist trolls often use several different sockpuppet names in their attacks on conservative websites. And some of them actually get paid to do their character assassinations and spread their anti-American lies. In the beginning, they are given leftist talking-points to be disseminated. Later, they can usually manage their enemy propaganda and disinformation on their own.

Lefty websites typically don't tolerate freedom of speech: say something conservative Christian there and you get banned right away.
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Old 11-27-2012, 16:08   #37
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It seems that leftist trolls often use several different sockpuppet names in their attacks on conservative websites. And some of them actually get paid to do their character assassinations and spread their anti-American lies. In the beginning, they are given leftist talking-points to be disseminated. Later, they can usually manage their enemy propaganda and disinformation on their own.

Lefty websites typically don't tolerate freedom of speech: say something conservative Christian there and you get banned right away.
Awesome can you give us a few links? Sounds like a place I'd like to frequent and financially support. Anything you hate has to be good for the nation and mankind in general.
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Old 11-27-2012, 16:28   #38
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Translation: "Animal Mother supports Marxism and Islam".
Now that you've clearly stated you oppose the First Amendment, what other parts of the Bill of Rights do you find objectionable?
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Old 11-27-2012, 18:15   #39
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I'm more concerned about the breakdown in morals among the religious.

Christian leaders smoking meth and having sexual affairs, all while preaching the horrors of such things, Catholic priests buggering young boys, Muslim leaders advocating violence against innocent civilians...

The need (or desire) for personal freedom should never be confused with immorality.

And when the supposedly 'moral' leaders stray so far, what does that tell young people about integrity? That 'sin' is God's great test?

Also, the thought that capitalism is somehow 'moral' is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in a long, long time.
The victims of a "con man" are called "marks".

The victims of a "religious leader" are called "the faithful"

The only difference between a "religious leader" and a "con man" is that a "religious leader" may, I repeat MAY actually believe that the superstitious twaddle he peddles to his mark/faithful victims is the literal truth. Although, he can never prove that his particular brand of superstitious twaddle is in fact, true.

"You must blindly accept what I say is the truth "on faith". And oh by the way, you need to tithe me 10% of your income because I say God insists that you do so. So pay up, sucka. "

Bah. Humbug.

A con man knows he is peddling lies to his marks.

However, a significant percentage of "religious leaders" know full well that the superstitious twaddle they peddle is, in fact, just superstitious twaddle.

Such "religious leaders" are in fact, "con men", are probably those who are most often caught in the act of "do as I say, not as I do".


Last edited by Comrade Bork; 11-27-2012 at 18:20..
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:23   #40
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Now that you've clearly stated you oppose the First Amendment...
...actually, opposing Islam as I do, is NOT the same as opposing the First Amendment. Only an America-hating Marxist-Islamosupremacist like you would think so.

You're suggesting that our First Amendment demands that we allow Islamic "worship" here in our homeland. But Islamic "worship" involves killing Jews.

Worldwide, devout Muslims support jihad, especially against Israel. Hamas Muslims just broadcast on their official Al-Aqsa TV station, "Killing Jews is worship that draws us close to Allah".

Early, pre-political-correctness Americans (and conservatives, especially the Christian kind, to this day) would never agree with you that our Constitution requires us to derive light and power from Lucifer (which is what your Islamofascist interpretation of our First Amendment amounts to).
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