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Old 11-30-2012, 21:49   #51
Animal Mother
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Originally Posted by ballr4lyf View Post
Let's break this argument down real quick.

I do like your examples... They are good. But they all share one fatal flaw... All of them come out of the Old Testament. I.E. before Jesus.
What is your interpretation of John 1:1? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
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Old 11-30-2012, 23:35   #52
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
What is your interpretation of John 1:1? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Why does it smell like you're trying to lay some bait here? I did not come here to argue. Just to point out a flaw in a single argument... One used commonly against Christians.

Either way, whatever I say to answer your question, I believe you'll find a way to twist it to fit your needs. It's obvious you're deeply entrenched in your beliefs, so whatever I say will not sway you.

"Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."

Last edited by ballr4lyf; 11-30-2012 at 23:37..
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:34   #53
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Originally Posted by ballr4lyf View Post
Why does it smell like you're trying to lay some bait here? I did not come here to argue. Just to point out a flaw in a single argument... One used commonly against Christians.

Either way, whatever I say to answer your question, I believe you'll find a way to twist it to fit your needs. It's obvious you're deeply entrenched in your beliefs, so whatever I say will not sway you.

"Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."
I'm not trying to lay a trap, I'm asking a simple question. John 1:1 is frequently cited by theologians and apologists as a statement that Jesus has always existed and is co-equal with God, not a created being. If we follow this argument, there is no time "before Jesus" and further, if we argue a trinitarian god, Jesus is just as responsible for the laws and events of the Old Testament as He is for those of the New.
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:23   #54
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
1)...a counter-example: "The IRA is terrorist. But also yes, the IRA is Catholic." Do we therefore condemn all Catholics or Catholicism in general?
2) Perhaps, they find other ways to kills them now.
3)Your argument is that because some Chirstians and Jews don't follow the commands of the Bible, it's all good?
4)For every Muslim who would say that these killings are part of their religion, there are 10 who say otherwise...
5)In the case of honor killings, they long predate Islam, so how can they be a result of it?
6)For the same reason there are still gangs and murder in America, despite most Americans being against them...
7)That sounds dangerously like the arguments put forth by anti-2nd amendment proponents who claims that our Founding Fathers couldn't imagine firearms with detachable 100 round magazines. Is that also a position you support?
1) Catholics, a subset of all Christians, follow the Bible, which, unlike the Islamic Koran, does NOT endorse terrorism. So your analogy is bogus.

2) Some obscure African, partial-Christian sect does not represent all Christians. So your analogy is bogus.

3) But that's not what I said, is it? (Be honest) So your argument is bogus.

4) Not true. Today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11/01 has gone up to 20,016 (note the increase since yesterday).

5) If honor killings are unIslamic and predate islam, how come 91% of the world's honor killings are done by Muslims?

6) While American criminals are NOT behaving at all like Christ, Islamic terrorists are "good" Muslims, acting just like their mass-beheading, caravan-robbing, pedophile 'prophet' did. So your argument is bogus.

7) See Luke 22:36
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Old 12-01-2012, 08:55   #55
Animal Mother
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Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
1) Catholics, a subset of all Christians, follow the Bible, which, unlike the Islamic Koran, does NOT endorse terrorism. So your analogy is bogus.
Where does the Qu'ran endorse terrorism?
Quote:
2) Some obscure African, partial-Christian sect does not represent all Christians. So your analogy is bogus.
When were you granted the authority to determine who is really Christian or who is really Muslim for that matter? How do these Christian actions, in the UK not in Africa, fail to follow Biblical teachings?
Quote:
3) But that's not what I said, is it? (Be honest) So your argument is bogus.
It's exactly what you said. The Bible commands that Canaanites be killed, you claim Christians and Jews don't kill Canaanites, therefore the Christians and Jews aren't following the Bible. Is this another example of your self-appointed authority to determine who's a "real" religious adherent?
Quote:
4) Not true. Today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11/01 has gone up to 20,016 (note the increase since yesterday).
How many Muslims are there on the planet?
Quote:
5) If honor killings are unIslamic and predate islam, how come 91% of the world's honor killings are done by Muslims?
I don't know that they are, but even if that is the case, it doesn't change the reality that the practice pre-dates Islam, nor does it answer the question you were asked.
Quote:
6) While American criminals are NOT behaving at all like Christ, Islamic terrorists are "good" Muslims, acting just like their mass-beheading, caravan-robbing, pedophile 'prophet' did. So your argument is bogus.
Again you claim the authority to determine who is a "real" religious adherent, while also completely changing the topic. Your question had nothing to do with being a "good" one thing or the other, it had to do with why terrorists and criminal continue to exist if they are opposed by the majority of society. Why don't you address that point, just for variety if nothing else.
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7) See Luke 22:36
Why? That has nothing to do with the US Constitution or the supposed lack of foresight of the Founding Fathers. Couldn't you just explain why you think it appropriate to parrot anti-2A advocates arguments in this instance?
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:08   #56
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
1)Where does the Qu'ran endorse terrorism?
2)When were you granted the authority to determine who is really Christian or who is really Muslim for that matter?
1) Dogs bark, ducks quack, and leftists (such as Animal Mother) lie.

Likening Christianity and Islam is false.

Christians engaging in unjustified violence are betraying the explicit teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. OTOH, violent, unjust Muslims can rightly claim to be following the commands of Allah in the Koran and imitating Mohammed's evil role model.

Just some of the verses cited to support unjust Islamic violence include: Koran...
2:190-3
2:216
2:224
3:157-8
3:169
4:101
4:74-5
4:89
4:95
5:36
5:54
8:12-17
8:59-60
8:65
9:5
9:14
9:29
47:95
61:4...
...but, as a lying, anti-Western, leftist dhimmi, you knew all of this, didn't you?

2) God gave most of us at least a modicum of common sense, but only some of us utilize it, as your posts demonstrate.
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Last edited by snowbird; 12-01-2012 at 11:10..
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:47   #57
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In Sorgues, France, a Muslim mother named her baby boy, "Jihad". Cute, huh? Really 'peaceful', huh?

Now he's 3 and she sent him to nursery school wearing a top with, "I am a bomb", written on the front, and, "Born on the 11th September", written on the back.

But dhimmis keep trying to assure us that "only a tiny minority of Muslims" support jihad, slavery, beheading, bombing, etc
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:29   #58
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Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
1) Dogs bark, ducks quack, and leftists (such as Animal Mother) lie.
Now I'm confused. We've established you lie, not in the least in the way you label others. Are you trying to intimate that you're actually a liberal agent provocateur?
Quote:
Likening Christianity and Islam is false.
Except that it isn't in many cases.
Quote:
Christians engaging in unjustified violence are betraying the explicit teachings and examples of Jesus Christ.
Who gets to decide when violence is justified? Is this another instance where you've decided you should be the arbiter?
Quote:
OTOH, violent, unjust Muslims can rightly claim to be following the commands of Allah in the Koran and imitating Mohammed's evil role model.
Then why can't you produce relevant examples?
Quote:
Just some of the verses cited to support unjust Islamic violence include: Koran...
Let's examine a few at random:
Quote:
2:190-3
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Is it your position that defensive war is unjustified violence?

Quote:
3:157-8
And if you are killed in the cause of Allah or die - then forgiveness from Allah and mercy are better than whatever they accumulate [in this world]. And whether you die or are killed, unto Allah you will be gathered.

Being with God after dying in his service is terrorism?
Quote:
3:169
And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,

As above, how is this terrorism?
Quote:
4:89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

An indictment of apostasy, but not an endorsement of terrorism. How is this different than the commands of Deuteronomy 13?

What about the context, that seems vitally important in regards to the bible. What does the next verse say?

Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

That doesn't seem to be an endorsement of terrorism either. Maybe you've just picked the wrong verses?
Quote:
8:12-17
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - indeed, Allah is severe in penalty. "That [is yours], so taste it." And indeed for the disbelievers is the punishment of the Fire. O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight]. And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah , and his refuge is Hell - and wretched is the destination. And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.


Still not seeing any terrorism, but remind me what is the Christian belief about what happens to non-believers?
Quote:
...but, as a lying, anti-Western, leftist dhimmi, you knew all of this, didn't you?
I know you either haven't actually read the Qu'ran and the Bible, or you're intentionally misrepresenting what they say. What is intentional misrepresentation also called?
Quote:
2) God gave most of us at least a modicum of common sense, but only some of us utilize it, as your posts demonstrate.
Then you admit you don't actually have any idea how to identify a "real" Muslim or "real" Christian? An unexpected bit of honesty.

You also still haven't explained why you're employing anti-2A tactics against the First Amendment.
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Last edited by Animal Mother; 12-02-2012 at 02:39..
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:57   #59
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Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
In Sorgues, France, a Muslim mother named her baby boy, "Jihad". Cute, huh? Really 'peaceful', huh?
In New Jersey, a father named his son Adolf Hitler. Should we conclude that all New Jerseyites are Nazis?
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:41   #60
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In New Jersey, a father named his son Adolf Hitler. Should we conclude that all New Jerseyites are Nazis?
Was this father named Mohammed by any chance?

Hitler's book, "Mein Kampf", is still a best-seller in Muslim Bangladesh and numerous other Islamic lands.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:46   #61
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I'm confused.
That's the most benign explanation for your posts.

Alternatively, you may actually be an enemy collaborator, deliberately spreading disinformation, obfuscation, propaganda and lies to try to destroy the West. How much are they paying you? 30 pieces of silver?
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:15   #62
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
In New Jersey, a father named his son Adolf Hitler. Should we conclude that all New Jerseyites are Nazis?
Keep in mind Snowbird is the same one claiming Muslim US soldiers interred at Arlington were actually jihadists who were killed in action before they could hatch their nefarious terrorist plans. Every post is about jihadists, regardless of the topic.

Randy
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:20   #63
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That's the most benign explanation for your posts.
Wow, Christian quote-mining, snowbird in particular, imagine my surprise.

Also shocked that you neglect to address anything in Animal Mother's message.

-ArtificialGrape.

Oh, sorry, meant *not* shocked.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:34   #64
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Animal Mother, steveksux, Artificial Grape...cut from the same cloth
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Old 12-02-2012, 19:09   #65
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In a word, no.

Leftist atheists have tried this before, in the French, Bolshevik, and Nazi Revolutions, and failed horribly. Turning away from God, rejecting "square" values, promoting sodomy and discouraging traditional marriage as "freedom", taking the Lord's Prayer out of public schools, have all contributed to the mess we're now in.

To your credit, you see that we're heading downhill fast. But the only answer that's going to work is turning back to Jesus. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth.

The truth shall set you free.
The Nazis and the Commies simply try to substitute some totally nebulous bulldookey like "Aryan Superiority" or "Dictatorship of the Proletariate" for the equally nebulous bulldookey called "God".

We do not need Religion. We do not need Aryan Superiority nor the Dictatorship of the Proletariate.

What we need is to respect each others individual liberties.

And insist that our governments do the same.


Last edited by Comrade Bork; 12-03-2012 at 07:26..
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Old 12-02-2012, 20:31   #66
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Animal Mother, steveksux, Artificial Grape...cut from the same cloth
I suspect that you mean that as an insult. What's sad is that you don't realize it isn't one.
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Old 12-02-2012, 21:30   #67
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Animal Mother, steveksux, Artificial Grape...cut from the same cloth
In related news, scientists announced today that they discovered how to weave specialized nano-particles into a fabric material that kicks twerpy, pathetic theist butt in online debates. Testing has been underway on various online forums for years and is looking very promising.
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