[series1811]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.

[Comrade Bork]

Originally Posted by series1811

Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.

Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!

[Glock36shooter]

If someone stabs you in the heart... turn to them your other heart... Oh.. wait... that one won't work.

Hot Bi-Girl action and fried baby necks for all my men then!

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Comrade Bork

Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!

By what rules will you execute him as a murderer?

[Comrade Bork]

Originally Posted by series1811

By what rules will you execute him as a murderer?

He who takes a life, not in self defense, forfeits his own life.

He who actually springs the trap on the gallows, throws the switch on the electric chair, pulls the trigger(s) on the firing squad, what have you, is not guilty of murder.

Any more than the rope, the chair, the rifles, are themselves guilty of murder.

[Tilley]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

From two of our greatest modern philosophers, the foundation of a true morality:

Hey, hey, hey — don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.

and

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.

Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by series1811

Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.

But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.

[Sarge1400]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.

Good catch(es)!

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Tilley

Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.

1 for 2, though Fast Times does contain much great wisdom, the first quote is from Physicist/Neurosurgeon/Rock Star Buckaroo Banzai.

[dave109]

Originally Posted by Comrade Bork

Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.

From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Comrade Bork

He who takes a life, not in self defense, forfeits his own life.

He who actually springs the trap on the gallows, throws the switch on the electric chair, pulls the trigger(s) on the firing squad, what have you, is not guilty of murder.

Any more than the rope, the chair, the rifles, are themselves guilty of murder.

But, where do you find these rules?

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.

So you think that "nice" is an objective standard that everyone can agree on?

[Comrade Bork]

Originally Posted by dave109

From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct

Instigate Arguments? Yes.

Instigate Anger? Not so much.

I was trying to point out that "morality" based on the 1st five Commandments, is nothing more than useless claptrap designed to keep us all subservient to the shamans.

Am I angry about 10,000 + years of mind control manipulation by the shamans that continues to this day?

You betcherass.

[Comrade Bork]

Originally Posted by series1811

But, where do you find these rules?

My own observations.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Comrade Bork

My own observations.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Moral relativity.

[dbcooper]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

1 for 2, though Fast Times does contain much great wisdom, the first quote is from Physicist/Neurosurgeon/Rock Star Buckaroo Banzai.

what the Jefferson dude was saying is we left this England place cause it was bogus and if we don't get ourselves some cool rule pronto, we'll just be bogus too.

[G29Reload]

Originally Posted by JBnTX

Yes we can, and we have.
We've done a lot worse than what God had planned for Mankind.

The world we live in today is a direct result of man turning away from God.
God could have done a lot better job, if only we would have let him.

..

This.


And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

Please provide factual evidence of an objective morality. No? Then it is just your subjective opinion.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

That's just something people say when they're trying to pass their own opinions off as fact. Like you just did.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by series1811

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Moral relativity.

The same kind of moral relativity that has someone believing that it's OK for the government to seize children based on the parent's income levels and forcibly sterilize people?

[Comrade Bork]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

This.


And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

My opinion is that "morality" are the social mores we agree to collectively, that work for the society that agrees to them.

There is no absolute morality, since morality has to change when a society's conditions change.

[Sarge1400]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course morality is relative; Muslims think eating pork is immoral, Catholics think eating meat on Friday during Lent is immoral, the Christian bible says eating shellfish is immoral. Morality is relative to the subset of society you belong to.

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by G29Reload

And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

Truth is always relative to the question being asked and morality is always relative to the whims and trends of the people in the society. Whether it's in vogue to burn "witches", free slaves or legalize weed and prostitution the people involved create their own morality by the process of deciding what's right and what's not and to what degree.

[Davegrave]

Wow, I rarely find myself disagreeing with you G29, but morality is most certainly always evolving and relative to the time and place you are.

It used to not be immoral to marry a 12 year old. It most certainly is almost everywhere today.
It used to not be immoral to beat the tar out of your kids for disobeying you. Now in most civilized areas it most certainly is.

You can argue that those were always immoral, but then if morality has a basis in religion, where was religion to tell people to stop doing/condoning those actions? I'll tell you where it was. It was being used as a basis to condone those actions and defend them to the few at the time who were forward thinking and saw that they may not be OK things to do.

[series1811]

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

The same kind of moral relativity that has someone believing that it's OK for the government to seize children based on the parent's income levels and forcibly sterilize people?

Actually, yes (discounting the stuff you added in there for drama or because you don't understand the issues involved).