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Old 12-03-2012, 08:54   #26
series1811
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
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Old 12-03-2012, 14:56   #27
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Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!
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Old 12-03-2012, 15:24   #28
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If someone stabs you in the heart... turn to them your other heart... Oh.. wait... that one won't work.

Hot Bi-Girl action and fried baby necks for all my men then!
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Old 12-03-2012, 15:46   #29
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
Offensive violence is immoral.

Defensive violence is moral.

If someone initiates violence and stabs you in the heart, (a) you should have been able to defend youself and prevent it, or (b) if you are dead, we will execute him as a murderer.

Morality upheld.

Of course, still sucks for you!
By what rules will you execute him as a murderer?
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Old 12-03-2012, 17:45   #30
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By what rules will you execute him as a murderer?
He who takes a life, not in self defense, forfeits his own life.

He who actually springs the trap on the gallows, throws the switch on the electric chair, pulls the trigger(s) on the firing squad, what have you, is not guilty of murder.

Any more than the rope, the chair, the rifles, are themselves guilty of murder.
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Old 12-03-2012, 18:48   #31
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
From two of our greatest modern philosophers, the foundation of a true morality:

Hey, hey, hey — don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. 'Cause, remember: no matter where you go... there you are.

and

Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:09   #32
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Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
Yeah, that works fine until you realize how many people there are who don't have the same definition of "nice" as you do.

Like the person, who stabs you in the heart, because he decided the way you looked at him, wasn't "nice".

Without a standard, everything is relative, especially morality and ethics.
But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:13   #33
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Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.
Good catch(es)!
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:15   #34
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Fast Times at Ridgemont High and Roadhouse...you sir, have excellent taste in cinemas classics.
1 for 2, though Fast Times does contain much great wisdom, the first quote is from Physicist/Neurosurgeon/Rock Star Buckaroo Banzai.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:12   #35
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
Ah, Duuuuhhhhhhh!

A moral code based upon itself.


From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct

Last edited by dave109; 12-04-2012 at 01:14..
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:19   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
He who takes a life, not in self defense, forfeits his own life.

He who actually springs the trap on the gallows, throws the switch on the electric chair, pulls the trigger(s) on the firing squad, what have you, is not guilty of murder.

Any more than the rope, the chair, the rifles, are themselves guilty of murder.
But, where do you find these rules?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:19   #37
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But we do have a standard. Be nice. Nice, like murder, is a function of the defining society.

I think most would agree that if someone is trying to stab you in the heart, it's time to not be nice.
So you think that "nice" is an objective standard that everyone can agree on?
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:22   #38
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From what I've seen from you, you like to instigate anger and arguments. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously on the subject of morality?

Now spew forth your anger and hatred in your reply to my post, and prove me correct
Instigate Arguments? Yes.

Instigate Anger? Not so much.

I was trying to point out that "morality" based on the 1st five Commandments, is nothing more than useless claptrap designed to keep us all subservient to the shamans.

Am I angry about 10,000 + years of mind control manipulation by the shamans that continues to this day?

You betcherass.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:23   #39
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But, where do you find these rules?
My own observations.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:28   #40
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My own observations.
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Moral relativity.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:29   #41
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1 for 2, though Fast Times does contain much great wisdom, the first quote is from Physicist/Neurosurgeon/Rock Star Buckaroo Banzai.

what the Jefferson dude was saying is we left this England place cause it was bogus and if we don't get ourselves some cool rule pronto, we'll just be bogus too.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:45   #42
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Yes we can, and we have.
We've done a lot worse than what God had planned for Mankind.

The world we live in today is a direct result of man turning away from God.
God could have done a lot better job, if only we would have let him.

..
This.


And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:52   #43
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And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Please provide factual evidence of an objective morality. No? Then it is just your subjective opinion.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:56   #44
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Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
That's just something people say when they're trying to pass their own opinions off as fact. Like you just did.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:01   #45
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Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Moral relativity.
The same kind of moral relativity that has someone believing that it's OK for the government to seize children based on the parent's income levels and forcibly sterilize people?
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Old 12-04-2012, 14:52   #46
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This.


And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
My opinion is that "morality" are the social mores we agree to collectively, that work for the society that agrees to them.

There is no absolute morality, since morality has to change when a society's conditions change.
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Old 12-04-2012, 14:59   #47
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And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Of course morality is relative; Muslims think eating pork is immoral, Catholics think eating meat on Friday during Lent is immoral, the Christian bible says eating shellfish is immoral. Morality is relative to the subset of society you belong to.
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:50   #48
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And morality, like truth, is not relative. For if it is than there is no truth or morality. Youre entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Truth is always relative to the question being asked and morality is always relative to the whims and trends of the people in the society. Whether it's in vogue to burn "witches", free slaves or legalize weed and prostitution the people involved create their own morality by the process of deciding what's right and what's not and to what degree.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:11   #49
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Wow, I rarely find myself disagreeing with you G29, but morality is most certainly always evolving and relative to the time and place you are.

It used to not be immoral to marry a 12 year old. It most certainly is almost everywhere today.
It used to not be immoral to beat the tar out of your kids for disobeying you. Now in most civilized areas it most certainly is.

You can argue that those were always immoral, but then if morality has a basis in religion, where was religion to tell people to stop doing/condoning those actions? I'll tell you where it was. It was being used as a basis to condone those actions and defend them to the few at the time who were forward thinking and saw that they may not be OK things to do.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:13   #50
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The same kind of moral relativity that has someone believing that it's OK for the government to seize children based on the parent's income levels and forcibly sterilize people?
Actually, yes (discounting the stuff you added in there for drama or because you don't understand the issues involved).
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