[Taterhead]

In years past, I had done workups with my supply of A9 powder purchased a few years ago. It was made in Belgium. Most of you know that Accurate now has powders produced in the USA (I believe this is also true for A5 & A7).

The made in USA powder is a little denser and has a totally different look to it. The Belgium stuff was a dull, dark color of the tiniest little spheres. The USA powder is dark, but shines in the right light. It is also tiny, but is somewhat of a flattened ball. Thankfully it meters as well as the Belgium lots.

I wanted to do a re-test with 200 grain XTPs to see if much had changed. The Belgium lots were noticeably temperature sensitive. Accurate claims that the new formula is better in that regard. This test seems to back that up.

The Belgium powder that was tested at 90F ran WAY faster than comparable loads of the Belgium powder tested at 50F; with temperature being the only significant variable.

All other variables were the same except for the temperatures noted. The new lots tracked very closely to what the Belgium powder lots did when tested at 90 degrees.

Firearm: Gen 3 Glock 20 with stock barrel (4.6") and RSA
Temp: 65F
Elevation: 3200 feet
Brass: Starline
Primer: WLP
COL: 1.26"
Bullet: Hornady 200 gr HP/XTP
Powder: Accurate no. 9 (hand weighed and verified with check weights)
Velocities were 10 shot averages not corrected to the muzzle.

Caution! These loads are less than Hornady max data, but some do exceed Accurate's max load of 12.5 grains. If you choose to reproduce these loads, please reduce to Accurate's starting load of 11.3 grains and work up carefully in 0.2 grain increments. I had done so in previous testing, but did not list the results here.

12.4 grains
Average velocity: 1160 fps

12.6 grains
Average velocity: 1170 fps

12.8 grains
Average velocity: 1185 fps

13.0 grains
Average velocity: 1200 fps

Notes.

Accurate no. 9 always seems to exhibit flattening primers. Yondering hypothesized that it might be due to the fact that some of the tiny kernels make their way down into the flash hole and into the primer cup and increase pressure a bit on the primer. I think there might be some truth to that. There was no perceivable difference in primer condition from beginning load to end.

The 13.0 grain load grouped excellently. 1" at 15 yards for 5 shots is pretty good for me.

No excessive pressure indications of any sort. I like the fact that 1200 fps is attainable with the 200 XTP by using data right out of a reloading manual.

[whenmonkeysfly]

Thanks Taterhead. A 200 grain XTP bullet traveling at 1200fps is no slouch and is apparently quite accurate.

-Jay

[Taterhead]

Originally Posted by Taterhead

155 gr XTPs with Accurate No. 9

Ran some new loads over the chrony today. Respectable results. No issues.

Firearm: G20 with stock spring and barrel
Temp: 85 low humidity
Five shot average except for last three strings were 10 shots each. Velocities were not corrected to the muzzle.

Bullet: Hornady 155 gr XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: CCI 350
Powder: Accurate #9
COL 1.25"

14.3 gr
Average velocity: 1293
ME: 575

14.6 gr
Average velocity: 1309
ME:590

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1332
ME: 610

15.2 gr
No data - chrony errors

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1370
ME: 646

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1401
ME: 675

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1415
ME: 689

Notes: Accurate's max is 15.9 gr with a standard primer @ 32,700 PSI. I elected to go with a mag primer to ensure a good burn with that much powder. With the mag primers, I suspect that the pressures were a bit higher. They were getting warm (as noted by case expansion) by 15.8 gr. I suspect that bumping another 3-5 tenths would not be an issue, but case volume is about maxed at 16.0 gr.

The starting load was 50 fps faster than what Accurate was reporting from a 5# barrel. The top velocity was very close to book. I may try these with standard primers to see how they run. As is typical with A9, very clean burn. Little powder residue. These have a pretty pronounced recoil at 15.5 gr + and quite a bark. No issues with groups @ 15 yards.

Retest. All variables the same as above except 1) primer swap to CCI 300, and 2) abmient temperature.

I originally did workups with a CCI Mag primer. I wanted to do a re-test with standard primers. The velocities are slower, as expected. I attribute some of that to the fact that is was 20F lower for the second test. The Accurate no. 9 powder was from an older lot produced in Belgium that was noticeably temperature sensitive. The first two strings were 5 shot averages. The rest were 10 shot averages.

14.9 gr
Average velocity: 1257
ME: 543

15.2 gr
Average velocity: 1257 (chrony errors so limited sample)
ME: 543

15.5 gr
Average velocity: 1339
ME: 617

15.8 gr
Average velocity: 1366
ME: 642

16.0 gr
Average velocity: 1373
ME: 648

I bet that the mag primer was worth about 25 fps, and temperatures were attributable for the difference.

The brass looked far less "worked" with the standard primer. It would probably be about impossible to stuff enough powder in there to get excessive pressures.

Note: The more recent lots of A9 (made in USA) are denser, so potentially could add another several tenths. I bet 16.5 grains could get in there. Accurate reports that pressures at 15.9 grains is 32,700 fps.

Crap. Now there is another thing on the to-do list... I just happen to have some 155 XTPs onhand so might not be too long.

[Yondering]

Originally Posted by Taterhead

The 13.0 grain load grouped excellently. 1" at 15 yards for 5 shots is pretty good for me.

No excessive pressure indications of any sort. I like the fact that 1200 fps is attainable with the 200 XTP by using data right out of a reloading manual.

Good stuff. Here's an interesting observation I made recently, see if you have the same results: Within the 180-220gr range of bullet weights, Accurate #9 seems to give me close to the same velocity, for a given powder charge. For example, I'm loading my 220gr cast bullet over 13.0gr #9, for 1300 fps. The same load, but substituting a 180gr TC cast (Lee 175 TC mold), shot only slightly faster, at 1320 fps. I haven't found this to be true with other powders, but will be paying more attention now.

Edit: for anyone wondering, these velocities are from a 6.6" barrel in a G20 solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. The 220gr load is "full power", but the 180gr feels relatively mild.

[Taterhead]

Originally Posted by Yondering

Good stuff. Here's an interesting observation I made recently, see if you have the same results: Within the 180-220gr range of bullet weights, Accurate #9 seems to give me close to the same velocity, for a given powder charge. For example, I'm loading my 220gr cast bullet over 13.0gr #9, for 1300 fps. The same load, but substituting a 180gr TC cast (Lee 175 TC mold), shot only slightly faster, at 1320 fps. I haven't found this to be true with other powders, but will be paying more attention now.

Edit: for anyone wondering, these velocities are from a 6.6" barrel in a G20 solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. The 220gr load is "full power", but the 180gr feels relatively mild.

Yes, I have observed the same thing, except maybe a bit more extreme. 180 XTPs actually are generally a few fps slower than 200 XTPs for a comparable charge - as much as 50 fps at the high end. I attribute that to the long bearing surface and high bullet pull of the 200 grainer allowing the slow-buring A9 to build up a head of steam. For whatever reason, 180 XTPs just don't run that fast in my G20, no matter the powder (800-X, Longshot, Blue Dot, A7, A9, etc.). A9 is tops at about 1230 fps with more room to go. That is followed closely by Blue Dot.

[_The_Shadow]

I saw sort of the same thing using the very long Barnes 100% copper 140 grain bullets in my testing. These were the same length as the 200gr XTP's

TAC-XP FB 140 grain pn# 40005 10mm/40S&W0.400”
12.6 grains of AA#9 (had to adjust, powder shovingthe bullet back out 1.270")(Totally compressed @ 12.6 gr.) @ 1181 fps,Primer was totally flattened to the edges. This was about the same results with Hornady's give or take a few fps.

[nickE10mm]

delete

[Andrew Wiggin]

180 gr XTP, AA#7, COL 2.255"
Pistol was 4.5" barreled EAA Witness.
No significant pressure signs were noted.


11.0
____

1162
1223
1265
1195

avg: 1211

11.2
____

1203
1198
1134
1197

avg: 1183

11.4
____

1190
1205
1228
1222
1212

avg: 1211

11.6
____

1232
1213
1212
1226
1241

avg: 1225

11.8
____

1231
1260
1252
1254
1255
1245

avg: 1250

12.0
____

1259
1270
1282
1271
1266
1284

avg: 1272


I want to point out that this exceeds the loads recommended by Accurate but is within the bounds of Hornady's 7th edition. According to their data, Accurate did not test this combination at the full 37.5K psi, whereas a Hornady tech advised me that they do go up to the full SAAMI spec pressure.

It seems to me that this powder is a lot "happier" at or near max. 11.0 and 11.4 yielded the same avg velocity and all the lower powder charges had some pretty wide spreads in velocity. The three heavier charges were much more consistent and showed a much flatter progression in velocity. I'm tempted to go faster but according to the Hornady tech I ought to be at or near the full 37.5K psi.

[whenmonkeysfly]

Thanks for the data and research with Hornady Andrew.

[atyszka]

Hi guys, my first contribution to this forum. I didn't see much data for 165 GDHP so I thought I'd share my results from some testing this week.

Stock G20
50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
165 gr Gold Dot Hollow point
AA #9
Starline brass
1.255 OAL
CCI 350

15.0 = 1268 fps avg
1242, 1297, 1266, 1274, 1261

15.2 = 1286 fps avg
1308, 1267, 1291, 1280, 1287

15.4 = 1310 fps avg
1307, 1309, 1318, 1307

15.6 = 1311 fps avg
1322, 1319, 1308, 1297

All of these were extremely accurate and I didn't see any signs of over pressure in any of the brass, which was brand new. I decided to load up 200 of the 15.6 grs as my SD load for now.

[atyszka]

2nd load that I played with this weekend. I wasn't overly impressed with the velocity, but the accuracy was excellent. At the 17.5 gr, there didn't look like there was any room left in the case so that's where I stopped, which was also the max load listed in the AA book I have. No pressure signs on the brass and the primers look like they always do, slightly flattened, which seems to be consistent for me with AA #9 regardless of the charge. The AA book says the 17.5 gr load is only 29,000 (going from memory here) so the primer flattening can only be a result of the powder getting into the primer pocket as some smarter folks than I have theorized.

Stock G20
50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
135 gr Nosler HP
AA #9
Starline brass, new
1.255 OAL
CCI 350

16.5 gr = 1314 fps avg
1295, 1332, 1315, 1316, 1312

16.8 gr = 1325 fps avg
1341, 1323, 1321, 1306, 1336

17.2 gr = 1335 fps avg
1354, 1328, 1330, 1320, 1347

17.5 gr = 1373 fps avg
1329, 1410, 1379, 1359, 1389

[attrapereves]

In regards to your 165gr data... My carry load is 15.2gr of AA#9 with a 165gr Gold Dot. I usually see about 1320fps out of the load with an OAL of 1.250". I wonder if .005" would make that much of a difference in velocity? Maybe the colder temp could affect things too?

About the 135gr data... Since the 135gr bullets are pretty light, I've determined that AA#7 or even AA#5 will make a better powder for it. I'm still working on a 1500-1600fps load :-)

[atyszka]

I always seem to get slightly slower velocities than many others, could be my barrel, my chrony, or the weather. ~30 fps isn't insignificant, maybe I'll try shortening the OAL and see if that makes up for the difference.

And I hear ya (and others) on the 135gr with #9. It's just too slow for that light bullet. I have an older Accurate reloading guide (15 or so years) and it has #9 listed for the 135 Nosler, the new one does not. I started another thread looking for suggestions on the low velocity and tried some #7 and 800X, both with decent results, though no where near the velocities you're working on.

[attrapereves]

Originally Posted by atyszka

I always seem to get slightly slower velocities than many others, could be my barrel, my chrony, or the weather. ~30 fps isn't insignificant, maybe I'll try shortening the OAL and see if that makes up for the difference.

And I hear ya (and others) on the 135gr with #9. It's just too slow for that light bullet. I have an older Accurate reloading guide (15 or so years) and it has #9 listed for the 135 Nosler, the new one does not. I started another thread looking for suggestions on the low velocity and tried some #7 and 800X, both with decent results, though no where near the velocities you're working on.

I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7

[nickE10mm]

Originally Posted by attrapereves

I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7

800X and Longshot will both get 1600fps, advantage going to 800X

[atyszka]

Originally Posted by attrapereves

I really wonder what powder Underwood is using to get 1600fps out of 135gr pills. I'll be lucky to get 1500fps out of AA#5 or AA#7

Wonder no more. The_Shadow did a teardown of Underwood 10mm loads, they're all 800X and he weighed all the charges. GREAT info.

http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10m...5155165180220/

[_The_Shadow]

Yep I put them back together and shot them for the velocity info as well. The 135 grain was a supprise;
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: IMR800X 11.8 grains
Tested 11/29/2012 Underwood 135 Gr. Nosler JHP 1738 fps : Diameter 0.4325" @ the light "Smile" primer GONE, popped out!, case didn't eject as tested from my S&W1006.