GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2012, 16:38   #101
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Christmas is the day Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus.
No Christian has ever implied anything else.
Why do they say he was born on Dec. 25?
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:40   #102
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
yeah I know. The bible means something completely different than what it actually says. I keep waiting to get my magical decoder ring in the mail.

You folks and your mental gymnastics.
Nope. You just need to do some actual research & read it as if you were an adult.
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:44   #103
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Nope. You just need to do some actual research & read it as if you were an adult.
We do, that's why we keep trying to figure why people aren't following what it says.

But thanks for the name calling, it's always funny when so-called christians resort to name calling.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:51   #104
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Nope, not really.

Very old records show that the belief was that Christ was incarnated in the spring, which could very well mean that his conception was at that time. March 25th (the feast of the Annunciation) was the best guess, given the ancient Jewish belief in the integral age of prophets and given that they thiought that He died on March 25th. IF Mary's pregnancy lasted exactly 9 months (the best guess, although by no means a certainty), that brings us to: December 25th!!
Or it could very well mean that he was born in the spring.

Quote:
Now it logically follows that if Jesus Christ lived (need it be said?), he must have been born. The Gospels tell us that his birth was shortly before Herod the Great died. Herod's death can be fixed with certainty.
Josephus records an eclipse of the moon just before Herod passed on. This occurred on March 12th or 13th in 4 B.C. Josephus also tells us that Herod expired just before Passover. This feast took place on April 11th, in the same year, 4 B.C. From other details supplied by Josephus, we can pinpoint Herod the Great's demise as occurring between March 29th and April 4th in 4 B.C.
http://bible.org/article/birth-jesus-christ

Quote:
A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that December 25 couldn't be the date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:
First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8


). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth [of Christ] occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4




). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, 1970, p. 62).

http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/when-wa...-christmas-day


So, according to your bible, jesus was born in the spring, not conceived in spring.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:51   #105
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Do you think it could be said that religion as a whole has done far more harm than good? And that we'd have flying cars now if it wasn't for religion always holding us back?
I think religion was good in the early days of the agricultural revolution because it kept people from running off and forming their own tribes of hunter gatherers. If they ran off, God would get them. God would even get them after they died. There was no escape. This was necessary to insure there was enough labor to plant and harvest the corps. This led to civilization. However, its outlived its usefulness.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:58   #106
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
Why do they say he was born on Dec. 25?
Did you see my post above?

Read The Pagan Origins of Christmas?

... for example.
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 16:59   #107
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
I think religion was good in the early days of the agricultural revolution because it kept people from running off and forming their own tribes of hunter gatherers. If they ran off, God would get them. God would even get them after they died. There was no escape. This was necessary to insure there was enough labor to plant and harvest the corps. This led to civilization. However, its outlived its usefulness.
Then the question becomes Whose religion?

Yes Christianity came out on top as the dominant religion, but was it really the best?

Last edited by TK-421; 12-05-2012 at 17:15..
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:15   #108
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Did you see my post above?

Read The Pagan Origins of Christmas?

... for example.
Did you see my post above? The bible says he was born in the spring.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:16   #109
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Or it could very well mean that he was born in the spring.



http://bible.org/article/birth-jesus-christ




http://www.ucg.org/bible-faq/when-wa...-christmas-day


So, according to your bible, jesus was born in the spring, not conceived in spring.
Try to THINK about what you quoted.
Herod the Great's demise as occurring between March 29th and April 4th in 4 B.C.
So, christ had to be born, Mary had to recover. They had to present Him at the Temple for circumcision (8 days later). The Magi had to come and visit. Herod had to wait for them to return, only to find out that they hadn't. An indeterminate time later, Herod had to decide to kill all the newborns under 2 years of age, after which Joseph had to pack up & move to Egypt. Then, an indeterminate time later, Herod dies, and Joseph is given the all-clear to return to Judah.

Tell me again why you think that Christ had to be born in the spring based on this evidence?
Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
First, weather isn't consistant. Second, even today shepherds oftentimes are in the fields during December, although not as often for safety reasons:

In Bethlehem, shepherds watching their flocks by night are a dying breed

Aren't you at least a little embarassed about posting such easily refuted "evidence?"
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:19   #110
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
Did you see my post above? The bible says he was born in the spring.
I'm embarassed for you.
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:31   #111
TK-421
Senior Member
 
TK-421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Try to THINK about what you quoted.
Herod the Great's demise as occurring between March 29th and April 4th in 4 B.C.
So, christ had to be born, Mary had to recover. They had to present Him at the Temple for circumcision (8 days later). The Magi had to come and visit. Herod had to wait for them to return, only to find out that they hadn't. An indeterminate time later, Herod had to decide to kill all the newborns under 2 years of age, after which Joseph had to pack up & move to Egypt. Then, an indeterminate time later, Herod dies, and Joseph is given the all-clear to return to Judah.

Tell me again why you think that Christ had to be born in the spring based on this evidence?
Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
First, weather isn't consistant. Second, even today shepherds oftentimes are in the fields during December, although not as often for safety reasons:

In Bethlehem, shepherds watching their flocks by night are a dying breed

Aren't you at least a little embarassed about posting such easily refuted "evidence?"
I'm still waiting for you refute to the evidence. And if you didn't bother to realize it, that evidence comes direct from religious people, who I'm sure are way more educated in the bible than you are. So are you trying to say they're wrong and you're right?

So, who is right? The author of Matthew, who claims that Jesus was born shortly before the death of Herod, which happened around 4 BC, or Luke, who claims Jesus was born during the Roman census, which happened around 6 AD.

Yet another contradiction of your mighty book.
TK-421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:48   #112
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,842
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Bab...z/-/index.html

OK guys, give it back.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
__________________
"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."

"Nobody should ever run a race where they are lapped by the sun."
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 17:50   #113
happyguy
Na Ben Don Chat
 
happyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'm embarassed for you.
Good, because people like him don't know either embarrassment or shame.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
__________________
"I refuse to tip-toe through life only to arrive at death safely."

"Nobody should ever run a race where they are lapped by the sun."

Last edited by happyguy; 12-05-2012 at 17:50..
happyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 18:03   #114
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Nope. You just need to do some actual research & read it as if you were an adult.
Insulting me does nothing to substantiate your position. Care to elaborate?
__________________
Pascal:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Theory:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Grace:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Big Bang:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glock36shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 19:58   #115
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cream Soda Kid View Post
You're a putz.

and you're very articulate. You've just convinced many on here that Christmas is a christian holiday. If only everyone on this board could be as bright as you, and bring facts to the table instead of name calling!
OctoberRust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 19:59   #116
OctoberRust
Anti-Federalist
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,642
just read through the whole thread. Looks like the christian trolls are in full force today. Glad to see my thread is making some gears turn in their heads.
OctoberRust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 02:15   #117
Animal Mother
Not Enough Gun
 
Animal Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Try to THINK about what you quoted.
Herod the Great's demise as occurring between March 29th and April 4th in 4 B.C.
So, christ had to be born, Mary had to recover. They had to present Him at the Temple for circumcision (8 days later).
Did the Magi visit before or after this?
Quote:
The Magi had to come and visit. Herod had to wait for them to return, only to find out that they hadn't.
How long should Herod have had to wait to make this realization, if Joseph, Mary and Jesus were in Jerusalem only 8 days later?
Quote:
An indeterminate time later, Herod had to decide to kill all the newborns under 2 years of age,
An event no one else, other than Matthew records. Why would Herod, knowing as he presumably would of the census and the related movements to ancestral homes (as needed to explain why the Holy Family were in Bethlehem in the first place) limit his slaughter to Bethlehem? Wouldn't the King receive word of Simeon's blessing?
Quote:
after which Joseph had to pack up & move to Egypt.
Even assuming a December birth, Herod was dead within months, why would the Holy Family have had to flee to Egypt, instead of just going home from Bethlehem, if that's where the slaughter was ordered?
Quote:
Then, an indeterminate time later, Herod dies, and Joseph is given the all-clear to return to Judah.
How long did they spend in Egypt?
Quote:
Aren't you at least a little embarassed about posting such easily refuted "evidence?"
Are you at least a little embarrassed to be posting such questionable "refutations"?
__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."
Animal Mother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:13   #118
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
just read through the whole thread. Looks like the christian trolls are in full force today. Glad to see my thread is making some gears turn in their heads.
Still don't want to talk about what happened that makes you the way you are?

You can't run from it forever, you know. And, if you think starting a thread like this doesn't scream problems to normal people, go show it to your relatives or co-workers and ask them.
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:47   #119
Sharkey
Senior Member
 
Sharkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by OctoberRust View Post
just read through the whole thread. Looks like the christian trolls are in full force today. Glad to see my thread is making some gears turn in their heads.
I am sure I speak for many trolls, Christ is most definitely in MY Christmas. If you want to celebrate Kwanza or bow to some pagan pole (you aren't the firs or last), this is America and you have the right. I also have the right to call you a _____ for doing so. Trolls seem to abound in RI.
__________________
There are no saints in the animal kingdom, only breakfast and dinner.
Sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:50   #120
Sharkey
Senior Member
 
Sharkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Insulting me does nothing to substantiate your position. Care to elaborate?
Why? People elaborate for you all the time. No one here is gonna have an epiphany and say OMG, YOU are right. I am just not gonna take biblical teaching from an unbeliever.
__________________
There are no saints in the animal kingdom, only breakfast and dinner.
Sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:18.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,404
421 Members
983 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42