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Old 12-06-2012, 08:35   #81
Geko45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Ooooooh, I see I should take the word of guesses instead of the Word of God.
But you are only guessing that it's the word of god.

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Old 12-06-2012, 10:00   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
You have no factual evidence.
That's false, I have literally all the evidence. Archaeological, historical, anthropological, genetic, and radiometric.
Quote:
Since time can flow at different rates from different points of view, events that would take a long time as measured by one person will take very little time as measured by another person.
You're claiming there have been different frames of reference on Earth? Do you have any evidence of this?
Quote:
This also applies to distant starlight in deep space. that could reach the earth in only thousands of years as measured by clocks on earth. this would happen naturally if the earth is in a gravitational well.
But the Earth isn't in a gravitational well.
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OK, I pick Noah.
Ok, but it's still a myth.
Quote:
What statement?
If you can't follow the conversation, you should really excuse yourself.
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I ask for factual evidence. Not guesses that you provide.
And those facts are provided, you simply discard them in favor of your interpretation of the Bible.
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Well, that's your problem they are conclusions and not facts.
They're both, conclusions in science are based on facts and observations.
Quote:
It compromises the reality of God's word. It is inconsistent with God creating everything in six days, as Scripture states.

It puts death, disease, and suffering before the Fall, contrary to Scripture.
In other words, you discard the facts of science in favor of your interpretation of scripture. Something you do with absolutely no evidence.
Quote:
Ooooooh, I see I should take the word of guesses instead of the Word of God.
Guesses are not involved. That you find it necessary to make such a false characterization makes it clear that you realize, on some level, that your version of Biblical events is indefensible in light of the contrary evidence.
Quote:
Guess what, all the jumps I have made in a life time have worked out just fine.
The only way this reasoning makes sense is if you accept the uniformity of physical laws, but you're more than willing to discard that principle with regard to Biblical events. Which is it, are you a hypocrite or do you simply not understand how reasoning works?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:03   #83
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Glock36shooter
Look at the transition from Dinos to birds. They're about as different at a glance as you can get. But inside they're very much the same.

Answer:Molly:
They would be the same since God designed them. They are also the similar on the outside. Two eyes, two ears, one nose, two arms or wings and two legs. The reason Dinos did not evolve from birds is because they were both designed by God in the beginning.

Glock36shooter
Energy can actually produce matter. This is a fact. And there is mathematical calculations that illustrate that energy particles can arise from nothingness.

Answer:Molly:
You can't get something from nothingness. No matter how your calculations are figured, it is impossible.



Glock36shooter

I am talking about the sub-conscience. Ever heard of that?

What about it?

answer:Molly:
The subconscious mind stores all of your previous life experiences, your beliefs, your memories, your skills, all situations you've been through and all images you've ever seen. If you didn't have a sub-conscience you would never remember anything.

Glock36shooter

In a way yes. You can watch them running in their sleep, snipping at things and sometimes even barking. It's clear they are experiencing some kind of dream state and their body is reacting to the brain activity. On what level they dream who knows for sure. But there is definitely some kind of dream activity present. Sometimes you'll see them jump wide awake looking around as if something were after them or as if they were after something that got away. It's clear they were experiencing something.

Answer:Molly:
Do you think that is information stored in their subconscious?


Molly


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then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:18   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Since time can flow at different rates from different points of view, events that would take a long time as measured by one person will take very little time as measured by another person. This also applies to distant starlight in deep space. that could reach the earth in only thousands of years as measured by clocks on earth. this would happen naturally if the earth is in a gravitational well.
General Relativity is not free license for you to insert any explanation that accommodates your belief system. It is a precise mathematical theory with precise formulas that predict precise outcomes. We can calculate the predicted time dilation effects due to the gravity of the earth, sun and moon. The results do not support your assertion. We know this for a fact as out current GPS satellite system relies upon these computations in order to achieve the precise accuracy we've come to expect from our navigational devices. If our understanding on this was wrong in anyway, GPS simply would not work.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:30   #85
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Animal Mother:
That's false, I have literally all the evidence. Archaeological, historical, anthropological, genetic, and radiometric.

Answer:Molly:
I said factual evidence not theories AKA guesses.

Animal Mother:
You're claiming there have been different frames of reference on Earth? Do you have any evidence of this?

Answer:Molly:
The same evidence you put forward such as theories of what could have or should have been.

Animal Mother:
But the Earth isn't in a gravitational well.

Answer:Molly:
But your the one who says gravitation pulls us back to earth. Have they changed their theory again?

Animal Mother:
Ok, but it's still a myth.

Answer:Molly:
Only to those who aren't spiritual.

Animal Mother:
And those facts are provided, you simply discard them in favor of your interpretation of the Bible.

Answer:Molly:
You act as if that is a bad thing?

Animal Mother:
They're both, conclusions in science are based on facts and observations.

Answer:Molly:
You cannot observe things that happened billions of yours ago.

Animal Mother:
In other words, you discard the facts of science in favor of your interpretation of scripture. Something you do with absolutely no evidence.

Answer:Molly:
Are you telling me that science has discovered evolution is not a theory but a fact? I can't believe that you think you can make something out of nothing. It does not compute.

Animal Mother:
Guesses are not involved. That you find it necessary to make such a false characterization makes it clear that you realize, on some level, that your version of Biblical events is indefensible in light of the contrary evidence.

Answer:Molly:
See, you cannot believe in the Bible because you believe in theories that are not factual. Theories that have not become law.

Animal Mother:
The only way this reasoning makes sense is if you accept the uniformity of physical laws, but you're more than willing to discard that principle with regard to Biblical events. Which is it, are you a hypocrite or do you simply not understand how reasoning works?

Answer:Molly:
When I jump I land on my feet.


Molly


+++
John 14:1to3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my father's house are many mansions: If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself: that where I am, there ye may be also.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:41   #86
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Geko45

General Relativity is not free license for you to insert any explanation that accommodates your belief system. It is a precise mathematical theory with precise formulas that predict precise outcomes. We can calculate the predicted time dilation effects due to the gravity of the earth, sun and moon. The results do not support your assertion. We know this for a fact as out current GPS satellite system relies upon these computations in order to achieve the precise accuracy we've come to expect from our navigational devices. If our understanding on this was wrong in anyway, GPS simply would not work.

Answer:Molly:
Of course your calculations wouldn't be the same as mine.
My calulations support my assertions and my guesses.


Molly

John 13:31
Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, "Now is the son of man glorified in him."
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:06   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
My calulations support my assertions and my guesses.
Ok, let's see your calculations. What, you don't have any? Of course you don't because you don't even know where to begin to perform the necessary math to solve that problem.

You are doing to science what theists always claim that atheists do to religion. You are treating it as if it were subjective. It is not, the math provides only one answer and it does not support anything close to what you just said. Physics is objective, religion is subjective. Both of these statement are factually correct regardless of what you claim.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:36   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
I said factual evidence not theories AKA guesses.
...
Are you telling me that science has discovered evolution is not a theory but a fact?
...
See, you cannot believe in the Bible because you believe in theories that are not factual. Theories that have not become law.
Again you're demonstrating (or more accurately boasting of) your ignorance of how terms are used by scientists.

Ignorance can be excused, but given the explanation (video) that was previously provided, willful ignorance cannot be excused. I do, however, recognize that it is not possible to be a Young Earth Creationist without being willfully ignorant.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:53   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
They would be the same since God designed them. They are also the similar on the outside. Two eyes, two ears, one nose, two arms or wings and two legs. The reason Dinos did not evolve from birds is because they were both designed by God in the beginning.
Except modern birds didn't exist along side dinosaurs... neither did we.

Quote:
You can't get something from nothingness. No matter how your calculations are figured, it is impossible.
You actually can. It's a fact.

Quote:
The subconscious mind stores all of your previous life experiences, your beliefs, your memories, your skills, all situations you've been through and all images you've ever seen. If you didn't have a sub-conscience you would never remember anything.
And this means what to you? I get that we have a brain and that we remember things. It isn't evidence of God.

Quote:
Do you think that is information stored in their subconscious?
Probably. What's your point?
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Old 12-06-2012, 18:34   #90
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Originally Posted by neon View Post
I said factual evidence not theories AKA guesses.
There's no need for the constant repetition of this silliness. We established long ago that you're more than willing to ignore any evidence or science which contradicts your beliefs.
Quote:
The same evidence you put forward such as theories of what could have or should have been.
I'm always willing to produce evidence in support of my claims. Please do the same.
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But your the one who says gravitation pulls us back to earth. Have they changed their theory again?
The force of gravitation and a gravitational well are two different things. All you're doing here is demonstrating, yet again, your lack of knowledge about science.
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Only to those who aren't spiritual.
No, it's a myth to everyone who is willing to objectively examine the evidence.
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You act as if that is a bad thing?
Yes, it is a bad thing.
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You cannot observe things that happened billions of yours ago.
Did anyone claim you could?
Quote:
Are you telling me that science has discovered evolution is not a theory but a fact?
Yes, I am, as I have been for years and as many others do.
Quote:
I can't believe that you think you can make something out of nothing. It does not compute.
I believe that you actually believe that, but it has nothing to do with reality, like many of your other beliefs.
Quote:
See, you cannot believe in the Bible because you believe in theories that are not factual. Theories that have not become law.
Now you're just caught in a loop, we've addressed the concept of theories before. Your refusal to comprehend that concept does nothing to invalidate scientific truths.
Quote:
When I jump I land on my feet.
And this is, sadly, the extent of your understanding of scientific concepts.
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Old 12-06-2012, 18:35   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Of course your calculations wouldn't be the same as mine.
My calulations support my assertions and my guesses.
I would very much like to see these calculations.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:21   #92
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Glock36shooter:
Except modern birds didn't exist along side dinosaurs... neither did we.

Answer:Molly:
I know I didn't, they were extinct when I came along.

Dinosaurs weren't called dinosaurs in till the 18th century they were known as dragons. The Bible talks about dragons in the King James version as real animals.
Psalm 91:13
"Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet."
Isaiah 43:20
"The beast ( which was mentioned in Genesis as being made by God.) of the field shall honor me, the Dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen."

The word dragon appears in the Old Testament at least 21 times.

Glock36shooter:
You actually can. It's a fact.

Answer:Molly:
It is a profound fallacy

Glock36shooter:
And this means what to you? I get that we have a brain and that we remember things. It isn't evidence of God.

Answer:Molly:
Can you construct a psychology based on evolution? The problem you see, is the origin of man's mind. The fact that we think the way we do. What evolution describes as an heritage from the animal kingdom. The Bible regards as a consequence of sin. Man was not created evil, but only became evil after he sinned.

Glock36shooter:
Probably. What's your point?

Answer:Molly:
We are very different from animals.
We can only observe them, they cannot tell us what they dream or what they are thinking. We see them do things so we know they are thinking but we are only guessing what that might be. If I tell my dog he is to stay when I get ready to go out. He turns around and jumps on the sofa.


Molly


+++
Revelation 17:14
these shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them; for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they that are with him are called, chosen, faithful.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:50   #93
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Animal Mother:
There's no need for the constant repetition of this silliness. We established long ago that you're more than willing to ignore any evidence or science which contradicts your beliefs.

Answer:Molly:
Why does it make you so uneasy to compare a theory with a guess? You know that's what a theory is until it is a law.

Animal Mother:
I'm always willing to produce evidence in support of my claims. Please do the same.

Answer:Molly:
I do, if I didn't we wouldn't still be going back and forth on this.

Animal Mother:
The force of gravitation and a gravitational well are two different things. All you're doing here is demonstrating, yet again, your lack of knowledge about science.

Answer:Molly:
You know this and yet do not explain this to me. Do I have to look it up?

Animal Mother:
Yes, I am, as I have been for years and as many others do.

Answer:Molly:
Don't you understand that evolution cannot be fact?
You accept the fact that nonliving chemicals form into simple life-forms into more complex life-forms and finally into humans. You say that this change occurred over millions of years, and the dominant mechanism that is supposed to have driven it is natural selection coupled with mutations.

This sounds like the perverted work of Satan trying to make people not believe in God. With Satan everything is backwards. According to you earth made man and you cannot prove how these things came about.
YOU have not found any missing links.

Animal Mother:
I believe that you actually believe that, but it has nothing to do with reality, like many of your other beliefs.

Answer:Molly:
We can only observe variation within the created kind.
Your links are still missing.

Animal Mother:
Now you're just caught in a loop, we've addressed the concept of theories before. Your refusal to comprehend that concept does nothing to invalidate scientific truths.

Answer:Molly:
Your caught in a trap because you cannot understand the spiritual. There is no scientific truths to invalidate. And must I say again you, can't go back and observe you must
guess.

Molly


+++
Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:12   #94
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Animal Mother:

Gravity well ideas.

Answer:Molly:

There's no difference between the gravity field and gravity well ideas, it's just a matter of perspective.

Molly


+++
Galations 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, where unto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:17   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Dinosaurs weren't called dinosaurs in till the 18th century they were known as dragons. The Bible talks about dragons in the King James version as real animals.
I'm sure they found fossilized remains back then as well, but it's unlikely they would understand that they were looking at rock and not actual bone. They probably assumed that they were still around but extremely rare. Nobody ever actually saw one alive.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:00   #96
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Originally Posted by neon View Post
I know I didn't, they were extinct when I came along.
No human did. They existed long before mankind did.

Quote:
Dinosaurs weren't called dinosaurs in till the 18th century they were known as dragons. The Bible talks about dragons in the King James version as real animals.

"The beast ( which was mentioned in Genesis as being made by God.) of the field shall honor me, the Dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen."

The word dragon appears in the Old Testament at least 21 times.
I think there may have actually been dragons once upon a time. Too many cultures have stories about them. And if there were such a thing as dragons they probably were one of the last cousins to the Dinosaur... sort of like the Crocodile. But that doesn't change the fact that there were giant reptilian creatures roaming this planet LONG before humans evolved from our ape like cousins.

Quote:
It is a profound fallacy
No it's a fact.

Quote:
Can you construct a psychology based on evolution? The problem you see, is the origin of man's mind. The fact that we think the way we do. What evolution describes as an heritage from the animal kingdom. The Bible regards as a consequence of sin. Man was not created evil, but only became evil after he sinned.
I don't even know what craziness you're talking about. What does our sub conscience have to do with God?

Quote:
We are very different from animals.
Not very different no. Our bodies have similar structures and materials. They operate on the same principles (Although dogs don't seem to handle chocolate all that well... poor guys). We even have some of the same behaviors. We're absolutely different species... but not day an night in our makeup at all.

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We can only observe them, they cannot tell us what they dream or what they are thinking.
Because they don't have complex language. But they can communicate. Anyone that has a dog will tell you they can communicate.

Quote:
We see them do things so we know they are thinking but we are only guessing what that might be.
That's a horrible over simplification. There are animal behavior researchers that know volumes about what animals think. Simply because it isn't our field of study and we are ignorant of the information doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's your problem Molly... you think if you don't know it, and it doesn't fit nicely into your bible... that it can't be real. You're ignorant... and a fool.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:01   #97
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I'm sure they found fossilized remains back then as well, but it's unlikely they would understand that they were looking at rock and not actual bone. They probably assumed that they were still around but extremely rare. Nobody ever actually saw one alive.
Or they just imagined giant winged lizards just like they imagined a cockatrice, giants and angles. Not to mention talking snakes and apocalyptic horsemen.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:03   #98
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Originally Posted by Brasso View Post

Because the world is mostly anti-semetic and doesn't like the idea of a God in heaven.

God on the side of one chosen tribe is the idea "most of the world does not like".

One tribe set some major bad philosophy into play. Blood sacrifice is required for God to forgive and accept mankind. Christianity grew out of this errant philosophy. God accepts you if........

Now there is world war three coming all based in religious philosophy. There may be no stopping it. But in the end it is like Glock36shooter said, it is just a piece of land that will make no difference at all after we are done killing each other.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:10   #99
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Originally Posted by neon View Post
There's no difference between the gravity field and gravity well ideas, it's just a matter of perspective.
Then I'll ask again, are you claiming there are different frames of relativistic perspective present on Earth?

I also note you've abandoned your other objections, I take it that we can now agree the earth is 4.4 Billion years old and the universe is 13.7 Billion years old.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:17   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Why does it make you so uneasy to compare a theory with a guess? You know that's what a theory is until it is a law.
OMFG

You have either (a) twice ignored the video of scientists explaining how the terms are used in science, or (b) watched the video and chosen to ignore it so that you can continue with your gross misrepresentations of how the terms are used among scientists.

I'll break it down briefly for you for the avoidance of doubt:

fact -- confirmed observations. For example the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, or an apple released from a tree falls to the ground. Facts are merely data points, they don't explain anything.

hypothesis -- testable statement. Hypotheses can be accepted or rejected based on testing.

theory -- explanation. A theory is an explanation based on facts and testable hypotheses and explains the facts. Theories can be used to make predictions. Even when supported by a metric arse-load of data, theories remain falsifiable.

law -- a descriptive generalization. e.g. laws of thermodynamics. Theories are used to explain laws, and many disciplines of science don't have laws.

The hierarchy of increasing importance/value to scientists is: facts --> hypotheses --> laws --> theories.

Falsification can occur at any point in this process -- that's actually a great thing about science. Yes, even "facts" can be falsified.

Swans are white would have been a fact in Europe until somebody made it to Australia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
Don't you understand that evolution cannot be fact?
Of course, it can, and it is. Leaving aside for the moment natural selection or any other mechanism, "life evolved from simple single-celled organisms to more complex organisms" is a fact. No amount of biblical objection is going to change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
You accept the fact that nonliving chemicals form into simple life-forms into more complex life-forms and finally into humans. You say that this change occurred over millions of years, and the dominant mechanism that is supposed to have driven it is natural selection coupled with mutations.
The theory of evolution has nothing to do with non-living chemicals -- I don't know how many times this has been explained. Evolution begins with the first self-replicating molecule. Perhaps the Evolution Primer thread would be a good place for you to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
YOU have not found any missing links.
Many, many transitional species have been identified, but to ask for a missing link is again to boast of your ignorance of the theory of evolution. Evolution occurs through branching (like a bush), not like rungs up a ladder with a missing link. A missing link suggests evolution occurs like rungs up a ladder. If that were the case we would have a single, highly evolved species rather than the millions of species that we have today (plus all the extinct species). Again, the primer would be a good place to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
We can only observe variation within the created kind.
Your links are still missing.
You still haven't answered the question: how many "kinds" would have been represented on the ark?

-ArtificialGrape
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