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Old 12-05-2012, 21:34   #26
juggy4711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
Agreed, she must have already been dumb if she actually smoked weed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
I hear "De' Nile" is a wide and deep river.
Wow. Set em up and knock em down. Who would of known it would be that easy?

Last edited by juggy4711; 12-05-2012 at 21:40..
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Old 12-05-2012, 21:56   #27
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Originally Posted by juggy4711 View Post
Wow. Set em up and knock em down. Who would of known it would be that easy?

That makes no sense, but if you were trying to be witty, you may well have proved our point, if you weren't you may well have proved out point,

If you were trying to prove our point

"EUREKA!"
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Old 12-06-2012, 17:04   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Humor is often lost on me, but not always...
It can depend greatly on the perceived intent.

I haven't opened the linked item-
Is someone cited there claiming that MJ made him smarter?


I myself could definitely use all the additional smarts I can get. I'm continually attempting things/projects that are a step or two above my capabilities. I'm very blessed though to have some incredibly smart friends. They're usually available to lend help when it's needed.
Is there even a remote chance that MJ use has decreased your sense of humor? The first time I smoked MJ, I was a giggling fool. There are some medications that give a certain "above normal" stimulus, and when the body gets used to that stimulus, it requires it to see the same results.

I've been MJ free for about 26 years, so maybe funny stuff that is funny, is still funny to me.



There may be a tongue in cheek implication that MJ makes you dumber.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 12-06-2012 at 17:13..
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Old 12-06-2012, 17:15   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Nope... never commented on the article.
Posting in threads about an article, without reading is poor form around these parts.

Please, be considerate enough to read what someone is posting about before commenting. It's a matter of etiquette.
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Old 12-06-2012, 17:17   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
People do dumb stuff. A gal went into a local pharmacy to pick up a prescription and left her purse on the counter. The staff looked in the purse to see who it belonged to and found drugs. They called the cops who in turn called the owner of the purse. When she came to claim it the cops arrested her and her husband who was outside waiting in the car with more drugs.

Then there was the guy that walked into the cop shop smoking a joint.
There are heroes and zero's in every group. There are a few really smart people and really dumb people.

Notice the commonality though.
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Old 12-06-2012, 20:45   #31
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Is there even a remote chance that MJ use has decreased your sense of humor? The first time I smoked MJ, I was a giggling fool. There are some medications that give a certain "above normal" stimulus, and when the body gets used to that stimulus, it requires it to see the same results.

I've been MJ free for about 26 years, so maybe funny stuff that is funny, is still funny to me.



There may be a tongue in cheek implication that MJ makes you dumber.
Ya know Doc, your post is just... silly.
Am I less susceptible to humor than previously?

My comment was a somewhat "tongue in cheek" comment on what you find funny.. as expressed in the title of this thread.

A doctor should have at least 1/10th the intellectual honesty to realize and admit that the woman in that article isn't stupid because she may have/probably uses MJ. Cause and effect... something that you did of course learn as part of a medical education.

As admitted I used MJ many. many times.
I'm not stupid.

Funny thing about the assumptions people often make about that stuff... that it makes you do nothing but giggle. That it makes you eat twinkies. That it makes you lazy and unmotivated...

Many accept those common beliefs as absolute fact, very often in the total absence of knowledge.


Marijuana made you "a giggling fool"?
MJ motivated me to work. Some who knew me said it made me obsessed with my work. There was some truth there..
Using MJ motivated me to a focused intensity I had never before known, because it invariably inspired a total fascination with the art and craft of the design process.


I benefit today from the work habits I developed during those early formative years.... Years during which I was using MJ on a daily basis.

I learned, in fact I taught myself entire skill-sets, entire realms of technical knowledge, while using MJ daily. Skills and knowledge I still use today, which enable me to make a living and income well above the average in America.


While using and UNDER THE INFLUENCE of marijuana I designed and programed a PLC-based control system to operate the backup power onsite generators for a major hospital.
That's right.... the generators and high-voltage switchgear to provide backup power to a large city hospital campus. I was using MJ throughout the workday back then.

That system was peer-reviewed, then reviewed and approved by the senior project engineer, then unit-tested in the office before being fully function-tested onsite at the hospital with 100% success.
That was actually in 1999, the final year I used MJ before giving it up.



Did chronic use of MJ for 20 years make me stupid?
Two years ago I designed and programmed some of the major ship's machinery systems on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt_class_destroyer


Scroll down that page about halfway to the section headed AUTOMATION...
I designed significant portions of that automation system...
I programmed systems for the ship's propulsion power, the automated cargo-loading embarkation system, the HVAC, and several others.

I worked there with some of the smartest, hardest-working people I've ever had the privilege to know.
Quite a few were in their early 30's...
I became good friends with several, a few of who used MJ also, in their younger days while obtaining engineering degrees from some of the best schools in the nation, prior to going to work for that defense contractor.



I'll tell you the honest truth before God...
As I'm not using MJ today, there were many, many times on that project when I very-much wished I COULD use a little MJ...
Times I was in the office on a weekend at 10:30 PM and later, working on a design issue, stumped on some technical matter when I sat at my desk KNOWING that if I could have gone out for a walk for a while with a little MJ that my perceptions would be sharpened, that the MJ would have helped me see the problem from a different perspective, a perspective I badly needed at the time.

I had to forgo the MJ and press on without..

______________________________________________

"People often think they're thinking when what they are really doing is re-arranging their prejudices."
- Goethe


.
__________________
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Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY

Last edited by Atlas; 12-06-2012 at 23:40..
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:54   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Ya know Doc, your post is just... silly.
Am I less susceptible to humor than previously?

My comment was a somewhat "tongue in cheek" comment on what you find funny.. as expressed in the title of this thread.

A doctor should have at least 1/10th the intellectual honesty to realize and admit that the woman in that article isn't stupid because she may have/probably uses MJ. Cause and effect... something that you did of course learn as part of a medical education.

As admitted I used MJ many. many times.
I'm not stupid.

Funny thing about the assumptions people often make about that stuff... that it makes you do nothing but giggle. That it makes you eat twinkies. That it makes you lazy and unmotivated...

Many accept those common beliefs as absolute fact, very often in the total absence of knowledge.


Marijuana made you "a giggling fool"?
MJ motivated me to work. Some who knew me said it made me obsessed with my work. There was some truth there..
Using MJ motivated me to a focused intensity I had never before known, because it invariably inspired a total fascination with the art and craft of the design process.


I benefit today from the work habits I developed during those early formative years.... Years during which I was using MJ on a daily basis.

I learned, in fact I taught myself entire skill-sets, entire realms of technical knowledge, while using MJ daily. Skills and knowledge I still use today, which enable me to make a living and income well above the average in America.


While using and UNDER THE INFLUENCE of marijuana I designed and programed a PLC-based control system to operate the backup power onsite generators for a major hospital.
That's right.... the generators and high-voltage switchgear to provide backup power to a large city hospital campus. I was using MJ throughout the workday back then.

That system was peer-reviewed, then reviewed and approved by the senior project engineer, then unit-tested in the office before being fully function-tested onsite at the hospital with 100% success.
That was actually in 1999, the final year I used MJ before giving it up.



Did chronic use of MJ for 20 years make me stupid?
Two years ago I designed and programmed some of the major ship's machinery systems on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt_class_destroyer


Scroll down that page about halfway to the section headed AUTOMATION...
I designed significant portions of that automation system...
I programmed systems for the ship's propulsion power, the automated cargo-loading embarkation system, the HVAC, and several others.

I worked there with some of the smartest, hardest-working people I've ever had the privilege to know.
Quite a few were in their early 30's...
I became good friends with several, a few of who used MJ also, in their younger days while obtaining engineering degrees from some of the best schools in the nation, prior to going to work for that defense contractor.



I'll tell you the honest truth before God...
As I'm not using MJ today, there were many, many times on that project when I very-much wished I COULD use a little MJ...
Times I was in the office on a weekend at 10:30 PM and later, working on a design issue, stumped on some technical matter when I sat at my desk KNOWING that if I could have gone out for a walk for a while with a little MJ that my perceptions would be sharpened, that the MJ would have helped me see the problem from a different perspective, a perspective I badly needed at the time.

I had to forgo the MJ and press on without..

______________________________________________

"People often think they're thinking when what they are really doing is re-arranging their prejudices."
- Goethe


.
First, I'm a Physician Assistant, not a doctor, but I have been practicing medicine for 17 years and professionally involved in medicine for 26+ years, I filled prescriptions in my youth. Doc is a term of endearment, very common in the military, given to the highest ranking medical guy around, even if that is a private E-2 combat medic. And yes, I do get called doctor almost every day at work, and I correct them and tell them just to call me by my first name. I'd like to think that the best PA is better to see than the worst doctor, and that I am in that overlap. I have a lot of experience with drug abuse by my patients. There is a 400 bed facility that is part of the hospital I work in, located on the same campus that houses people in drug rehab. Ive got good feiends that work on that sectoon that call me often to consult on patients. I'm familiar with just about everything people use to get high/drunk. I work in an internal medicine sub-specialty after 10 years of primary care work. To be fair, at least for my patients WITHOUT underlying psychiatric issues, occasional MJ use seems fairly harmless except for legal issues. I have noticed that frequent users tend to be more dull and more paranoid. It's an anectdotal trend that, in my experience, I have found to be true. Too much of just about anything is bad.

The post you responded to was as stated, tongue in cheek, meant to be mildly humorous. It wasn't meant to be one, but I guess it is an indicator of your sense of humor.

Root cause analysis is a process I have been involved with for years. It's basically tracing back an undesired event to what caused it.

Undesired event. Young girl confesses to SERIOUS crime on YouTube.

So several questions would need to be asked and answered.

What was her baseline inteligence before weed.
Has it changed?
Is she dumb? Well probably now, we can safely assume.
Is she dumb because of being blonde? Some other factor? A head injury, CVA, congenital disorder etc etc etc.
Is she dumb because of weed?
Did she start doing weed because she was previously dumb.

To state that her weed use is the root cause is not possible from the available evidence. HOWEVER, it IS a factor. We know weed was important to her, and very likely a factor in where she is today, maybe even a cause. Often, crime is motivated by the desire to have drugs. That's possible. It's easy to imagine that someone HAS to be high to admit to felonies on YouTube.

One thing is absolutely certain, most people either have done, or know of another that has done something they regret while intoxicated.

Be good, and if you can't be good, be safe.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:06   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Ya know Doc, your post is just... silly.
Am I less susceptible to humor than previously?

My comment was a somewhat "tongue in cheek" comment on what you find funny.. as expressed in the title of this thread.

A doctor should have at least 1/10th the intellectual honesty to realize and admit that the woman in that article isn't stupid because she may have/probably uses MJ. Cause and effect... something that you did of course learn as part of a medical education.

As admitted I used MJ many. many times.
I'm not stupid.

Funny thing about the assumptions people often make about that stuff... that it makes you do nothing but giggle. That it makes you eat twinkies. That it makes you lazy and unmotivated...

Many accept those common beliefs as absolute fact, very often in the total absence of knowledge.


Marijuana made you "a giggling fool"?
MJ motivated me to work. Some who knew me said it made me obsessed with my work. There was some truth there..
Using MJ motivated me to a focused intensity I had never before known, because it invariably inspired a total fascination with the art and craft of the design process.


I benefit today from the work habits I developed during those early formative years.... Years during which I was using MJ on a daily basis.

I learned, in fact I taught myself entire skill-sets, entire realms of technical knowledge, while using MJ daily. Skills and knowledge I still use today, which enable me to make a living and income well above the average in America.


While using and UNDER THE INFLUENCE of marijuana I designed and programed a PLC-based control system to operate the backup power onsite generators for a major hospital.
That's right.... the generators and high-voltage switchgear to provide backup power to a large city hospital campus. I was using MJ throughout the workday back then.

That system was peer-reviewed, then reviewed and approved by the senior project engineer, then unit-tested in the office before being fully function-tested onsite at the hospital with 100% success.
That was actually in 1999, the final year I used MJ before giving it up.



Did chronic use of MJ for 20 years make me stupid?
Two years ago I designed and programmed some of the major ship's machinery systems on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt_class_destroyer


Scroll down that page about halfway to the section headed AUTOMATION...
I designed significant portions of that automation system...
I programmed systems for the ship's propulsion power, the automated cargo-loading embarkation system, the HVAC, and several others.

I worked there with some of the smartest, hardest-working people I've ever had the privilege to know.
Quite a few were in their early 30's...
I became good friends with several, a few of who used MJ also, in their younger days while obtaining engineering degrees from some of the best schools in the nation, prior to going to work for that defense contractor.



I'll tell you the honest truth before God...
As I'm not using MJ today, there were many, many times on that project when I very-much wished I COULD use a little MJ...
Times I was in the office on a weekend at 10:30 PM and later, working on a design issue, stumped on some technical matter when I sat at my desk KNOWING that if I could have gone out for a walk for a while with a little MJ that my perceptions would be sharpened, that the MJ would have helped me see the problem from a different perspective, a perspective I badly needed at the time.

I had to forgo the MJ and press on without..

______________________________________________

"People often think they're thinking when what they are really doing is re-arranging their prejudices."
- Goethe


.
There are some here (without naming names) that would insist that all those systems you worked on while under the influence have some kind of inherent hidden flaws that slipped past all the vetting processes and are just waiting to cause a tragic explosion, structural collapse, electrical fire or possible face full of acid.

Time will tell.

BTW, your story sounds very familiar. I've not worked on anything as complicated as that wicked boat of yours but I have had similar experiences with diagnostic work on commercial HVAC and CAM machine control systems not to mention numerous artistic designs that poured out of my head and got me out from under employer's thumbs.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:15   #34
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The ironic thing is that anyone familiar with the software engineering profession knows that marijuana use is extremely common. Over the years I've known at least 8 or 9 software developers who use MJ daily or almost daily.


Those here who, with no first-hand knowledge will swear that marijuana "makes you stupid and lazy" will type those words using PCs running operating systems and network/internet technology developed by people who use MJ all day long.
It's hilarious when you think about it.
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Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY

Last edited by Atlas; 12-07-2012 at 07:26..
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:26   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
First, I'm a Physician Assistant, not a doctor, but I have been practicing medicine for 17 years and professionally involved in medicine for 26+ years, I filled prescriptions in my youth. Doc is a term of endearment, very common in the military, given to the highest ranking medical guy around, even if that is a private E-2 combat medic. And yes, I do get called doctor almost every day at work, and I correct them and tell them just to call me by my first name. I'd like to think that the best PA is better to see than the worst doctor, and that I am in that overlap. I have a lot of experience with drug abuse by my patients. There is a 400 bed facility that is part of the hospital I work in, located on the same campus that houses people in drug rehab. Ive got good feiends that work on that sectoon that call me often to consult on patients. I'm familiar with just about everything people use to get high/drunk. I work in an internal medicine sub-specialty after 10 years of primary care work. To be fair, at least for my patients WITHOUT underlying psychiatric issues, occasional MJ use seems fairly harmless except for legal issues. I have noticed that frequent users tend to be more dull and more paranoid. It's an anectdotal trend that, in my experience, I have found to be true. Too much of just about anything is bad.

The post you responded to was as stated, tongue in cheek, meant to be mildly humorous. It wasn't meant to be one, but I guess it is an indicator of your sense of humor.

Root cause analysis is a process I have been involved with for years. It's basically tracing back an undesired event to what caused it.

Undesired event. Young girl confesses to SERIOUS crime on YouTube.

So several questions would need to be asked and answered.

What was her baseline inteligence before weed.
Has it changed?
Is she dumb? Well probably now, we can safely assume.
Is she dumb because of being blonde? Some other factor? A head injury, CVA, congenital disorder etc etc etc.
Is she dumb because of weed?
Did she start doing weed because she was previously dumb.

To state that her weed use is the root cause is not possible from the available evidence. HOWEVER, it IS a factor. We know weed was important to her, and very likely a factor in where she is today, maybe even a cause. Often, crime is motivated by the desire to have drugs. That's possible. It's easy to imagine that someone HAS to be high to admit to felonies on YouTube.

One thing is absolutely certain, most people either have done, or know of another that has done something they regret while intoxicated.

Be good, and if you can't be good, be safe.

You do realize that your addict experience is the absolute worst possible measure of drugs (ESPECIALLY something as relatively harmless as MJ) effect on society that there could be. It's no different than a sex addiction counselor seeing nothing all day but people that can't handle sex like a normal person deciding that sex is just overall bad for society. Their perception is skewed.

It reminds me of TBO's comments that anyone that has more than 1 drink with dinner is an alcohol abuser. I would only expect that kind of mindset from somebody that's been called on to deal with the drunkest dregs of society for years on end. Not belittling what you do at work at all, lord knows I couldn't handle med school, I just think you might take some of the blame off the inanimate object and place it back on the individual where it belongs. You know, like we do with guns.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:36   #36
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
The ironic thing is that anyone familiar with the software engineering profession knows that marijuana use is extremely common. Over the years I've known at least 8 or 9 software developers who use MJ daily or almost daily.


Those here who, with no first-hand knowledge will swear that marijuana "makes you stupid and lazy" will type those words using PCs running operating systems and network/internet technology developed by people who use MJ all day long.
It's hilarious when you think about it.
I know just what you mean. My girlfriend is a white hat and it's amazing the out-of-box thinking she can pull off to get around something. That is when she can explain it in a way I can understand. I'm a monkey on a typewriter compared to her.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:42   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post
You do realize that your addict experience is the absolute worst possible measure of drugs (ESPECIALLY something as relatively harmless as MJ) effect on society that there could be. It's no different than a sex addiction counselor seeing nothing all day but people that can't handle sex like a normal person deciding that sex is just overall bad for society. Their perception is skewed.

It reminds me of TBO's comments that anyone that has more than 1 drink with dinner is an alcohol abuser. I would only expect that kind of mindset from somebody that's been called on to deal with the drunkest dregs of society for years on end. Not belittling what you do at work at all, lord knows I couldn't handle med school, I just think you might take some of the blame off the inanimate object and place it back on the individual where it belongs. You know, like we do with guns.

I don't only see substance abuse patients. I see some. I'd guess about 10% or less. I see a lot that use stuff that are not in a substance abuse program too. I've definitly seen MJ exacerbate underlying mental health issues. All substances, including MJ, has a potential for causing harm. Most substances have increased risk with higher doses and more frequent use.

As I previously said, all of us know of occurrences where someone did something while intoxicated that they probably would not have done if sober. It happens often enough that most will easily accept that as a fact.

Oh, and honestly, any average student can pass medical schooling, as long as they have determination, stamina and a good memory. There really aren't any hard concepts in medicine, but there are a million easy ones. No one knows all of it, which is why we have multiple disciplines, multiple specialties and sub-specialties.

In the case if the young lady in the OP, I have a hard time believing that most people would have done that if not high. Just my opinion, but she brought MJ into the conversation, not me.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 12-07-2012 at 07:45..
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:47   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
The ironic thing is that anyone familiar with the software engineering profession knows that marijuana use is extremely common. Over the years I've known at least 8 or 9 software developers who use MJ daily or almost daily.


Those here who, with no first-hand knowledge will swear that marijuana "makes you stupid and lazy" will type those words using PCs running operating systems and network/internet technology developed by people who use MJ all day long.
It's hilarious when you think about it.
There are variances in people's experience with MJ. It does make some people lazy, not all, just some.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:04   #39
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
There are variances in people's experience with MJ. It does make some people lazy, not all, just some.
From my experience and observation I would argue that the vast majority of those people simply have a predisposition to laziness.
That isn't an uncommon personality trait..
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Last edited by Atlas; 12-07-2012 at 08:25..
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Old 12-07-2012, 13:36   #40
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
From my experience and observation I would argue that the vast majority of those people simply have a predisposition to laziness.
That isn't an uncommon personality trait..
Well, could we at least agree that people using MJ should not be eligible for public assistance. If they have money enough to buy MJ, beer and/or cigarettes, we are giving them too much money.
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Old 12-07-2012, 13:40   #41
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Well, could we at least agree that people using MJ should not be eligible for public assistance...
We certainly can agree to that...


Easy enough for me, because I would do away with all forms of government-supplied public assistance in a heartbeat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
...If they have money enough to buy MJ, beer and/or cigarettes, we are giving them too much money.
If we are giving anyone money in any amount which was first taken by government from someone else, someone who produced it, then we are giving them too damn much.

But then... I'm repeating myself, aren't I?
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Last edited by Atlas; 12-07-2012 at 13:41..
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:13   #42
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
The ironic thing is that anyone familiar with the software engineering profession knows that marijuana use is extremely common. Over the years I've known at least 8 or 9 software developers who use MJ daily or almost daily.


Those here who, with no first-hand knowledge will swear that marijuana "makes you stupid and lazy" will type those words using PCs running operating systems and network/internet technology developed by people who use MJ all day long.
It's hilarious when you think about it.
Now I know why it took 30 years to create a stable operating system.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:15   #43
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Good thing stupidity is not illegal in this country.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:32   #44
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Now I know why it took 30 years to create a stable operating system.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy

There are individuals who create their own operating system...
You?
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:37   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
Good thing stupidity is not illegal in this country.
I agree, but it'd be too burdensome to prove in court. It's easier just to lock 'em up for possession of smoke. The results would be the same.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:53   #46
Cavalry Doc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
There are individuals who create their own operating system...
You?
A single person, or in conjunction with others. (i.e.modifying one of the numerous flavors of linux)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a feature rich operating system would take a long time for one person to start from scratch and finish without help.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:01   #47
Atlas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
A single person, or in conjunction with others. (i.e.modifying one of the numerous flavors of linux)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a feature rich operating system would take a long time for one person to start from scratch and finish without help.
Very good sir, you are correct.
And yes, I was thinking primarily of Linux..
(and I of course have no idea whether Torvalds has ever in his life tried or used cannabis)

Sure it takes a long time, but some do so.
Not a "feature-rich" OS with the full set of functionality we expect from a personal computer OS such as Linux or Windows, but regardless...

I am not a software engineer, and I don't have the capability to create an OS myself.

My point in that post stands however..


Some folks make things happen.
Some folks watch things happen.
Some folks stand around and wonder WHAT happened.
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Last edited by Atlas; 12-08-2012 at 07:02..
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