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Old 12-07-2012, 19:07   #26
juggy4711
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Originally Posted by maxsnafu View Post
Some of us realized this a long time ago. Our warnings were ignored NOT because of "the way the message was delivered" but because people didn't want to hear the bad news.
That is an excellent distinction. I suppose blaming the delivery is just an excuse.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:33   #27
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
you dont get it, obama will win....clif occures, taxes go up, he then cuts taxes for the middle class only like he wanted to before.....taxes will stay up for the upper class.

no economic tanking....

the GOP will look inept, again. powerless before the cliff and powerless after the cliff that obama fixed alone.
I get where you're coming from, except that the fiscal cliff isn't just about tax cuts. The fiscal cliff is when the borrowing matches the approved "ceiling" and no more may be borrowed. The tax cuts are a bargaining chip, always have been, always will be.

The Republicans will cave because they're spineless cowards. They know the day we hit the wall, and the day our credit is downgraded further, they will have Democrat fingers pointing at them. And since they clearly don't have the first clue how to play offense, they will cave.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:36   #28
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we need to go over the cliff, after a brief recession we'd start seeing improvements in the economy. But that wont happen, theyll make a deal that makes them look good and kick the can down the road once more. Until the day comes when they kick the can against a wall and are forced to pick it up. China figures out we can never pay them back as theyre arent even 16 trillion dollars in existence. We either default on the debt, (the ramifications of that is anyones guess.) or we simply print it out of thin air to pay the debt causing hyperinflation and it takes a dufflebag full of bills to buy a pack of gum. Either way a crisis is coming and hopefully we can restructure and revamp without society collapsing, even though civil unrest is almost certain when welfare and social security stops coming. Hopefully in the meantime the people can be educated about the scurge that is the Federal Reserve and when the crisis and subsequent revamping occurs, the problem will be brought to light
When (not if) we "go over the cliff", there will NOT be a "brief" recession... it will hurt, and likely last a few years. But postponing it as Congress is now doing is just worsening, deepening and prolonging that inevitable pain.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:37   #29
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Republicans should, at minimum, not let the commie-crats say that this debacle was 'bi-partisan' ....

.
They should... but they won't. They will pander and cave because that's what the majority of them do. Just as they did two years ago.
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Old 12-08-2012, 13:18   #30
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No admin., R or D, has ever shrink the Gov't.

This fiscal cliff is the only tool to shrink US Gov't. Let it happen.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:36   #31
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Why.........why, doesn't the GOP embrace Simpson/Bowles and stick to it. It was Zero's own committee, bipartisan as is possible, pretty decent in its findings. It is the best chance to salvage some "face".
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Old 12-10-2012, 17:45   #32
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It frankly doesn't matter what the GOP does.

If we go over the cliff, the spin is going to be that the GOP cares only about the rich and to hell with the middle class...

If the GOP allows taxes to go up on the top two percent, the official spin will be that the GOP *finally* gets it, and that it was irresponsible to have allowed the rich to have paid so little for so long.

The Dems and the media are going to spin it this way...and either way their darling Obama will be made out to be the hero.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:14   #33
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Political Issues
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:33   #34
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Political Issues
im afraid thats about how its going to go.
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:56   #35
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You never win being on the defensive............until the repubs figure out how to take the offensive and change the game, they will continue to lose.
I am growing very weary of the whole cliff thing, it is already over, either way.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:39   #36
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y2k, didnt happen, obama rioters, didnt happen, fiscal cliff, wont happen.
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Old 12-11-2012, 15:29   #37
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It's been an excellent and successful maneuver to blame the waiters for the cook's incompetence.


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Old 12-31-2012, 19:54   #38
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It's simply a made-for-tv drama. I believe that there will be no compromise. I believe that Obamas tax cuts are the plan. That way everything gets pushed through and we all sit and blame each side. Brilliant.
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Old 12-31-2012, 20:04   #39
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
if the GOP doesnt cave in to obama before the fiscal cliff, they will look like the bad guys because...............

fiscal cliff happens......all tax rates go up, then obama looks like a hero by giving a new tax break to the middle class.

no cuts in the welfare roll and it will continue to drain the nation.
In the big picture 'The Cliff' doesn't mean anything. The USA has passed the point of no return on the debt and deficit. The hearts and minds of most people and the media aren't focusing on the debt/deficit. They are focusing on the 'tax the rich' which is small change.
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Old 12-31-2012, 21:37   #40
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You never win being on the defensive............until the repubs figure out how to take the offensive and change the game, they will continue to lose.
I am growing very weary of the whole cliff thing, it is already over, either way.
How did Reagan do it? By portraying the dems as "tax and spend, tax and spend, they never met a tax they didn't like, there you go again." Or something like that. We never hear anything approaching this from the conservatives on the hill. They need to figure out how to "make" the media listen and quit trying to play nice.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:01   #41
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How did Reagan do it? By portraying the dems as "tax and spend, tax and spend, they never met a tax they didn't like, there you go again." Or something like that. We never hear anything approaching this from the conservatives on the hill. They need to figure out how to "make" the media listen and quit trying to play nice.
America is different now. People are fine with screwing someone else as long as it's not them, especially if that person makes a lot of money. They've been brainwashed through years of socialist propaganda that has them convinced any dissatisfaction they have with their position in life is the fault of the rich guys.


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Old 01-01-2013, 06:54   #42
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Originally Posted by PaulMason View Post
In the big picture 'The Cliff' doesn't mean anything. The USA has passed the point of no return on the debt and deficit. The hearts and minds of most people and the media aren't focusing on the debt/deficit. They are focusing on the 'tax the rich' which is small change.
these are the facts, we have a majority of voters whom know almost nothing about the financial state of the nation so they vote in obama over a proven financial success that is romney.

the voters (ignorant of fiscal finances) side with the tax the rich crowd out of envy or whatever their phobia is, thinking that will help fix things.

so we have taxes going up on the successful people, taxes staying where they are on the less successful people, meanwhile the debt, spending tail spin un-noticed by the less successfull masses.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:27   #43
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America is different now. People are fine with screwing someone else as long as it's not them, especially if that person makes a lot of money. They've been brainwashed through years of socialist propaganda that has them convinced any dissatisfaction they have with their position in life is the fault of the rich guys.
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Oh, I know. Being ever the optimist, I was just hoping for the best while preparing for the worst.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:23   #44
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And...they caved as predicted. So, will they cave on an AWB or Magazine Capacity limit?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:31   #45
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And...they caved as predicted. So, will they cave on an AWB or Magazine Capacity limit?
Using the debt ceiling to leverage spending cuts is strategically superior to using tax rates to leverage spending cuts.


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Last edited by IvanVic; 01-02-2013 at 04:32..
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