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Old 12-07-2012, 16:23   #21
Lone Wolf8634
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
The only upside to nuclear weapons seems to be that we eventually reached a point where we invented a weapon that was so horrific that almost no one is willing to use it. There appears to be at least some limit to our depravity. Still, that genie can't be kept in the bottle forever. Sooner or later some unstable individual (probably a religious zealot) will get their hands on one and destroy a major city or three. The world will undergo a radical change that day, for the better or worse is uncertain.
Very true. However, nuclear weapons don't bother me nearly as much as biological weapons do. Once a nuke is deployed its effect will linger in an area, set a bug loose and it could travel the world.
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Old 12-07-2012, 16:38   #22
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Very true. However, nuclear weapons don't bother me nearly as much as biological weapons do. Once a nuke is deployed its effect will linger in an area, set a bug loose and it could travel the world.
Would probably be much easier to deploy and develop such a weapon, only need the raw materials, which luckily are hard to get. Same with nukes, but nukes require significant engineering expertise to make them work.

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Old 12-07-2012, 21:16   #23
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The only upside to nuclear weapons seems to be that we eventually reached a point where we invented a weapon that was so horrific that almost no one is willing to use it.
You banter the emblem of the Air Force, implying you are a patriot, yet this is what you have to say about what helps to keep this Country secure?
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Old 12-07-2012, 21:42   #24
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You banter the emblem of the Air Force, implying you are a patriot, yet this is what you have to say about what helps to keep this Country secure?
Nuclear weapons and the threat of mutual destruction may have kept us safe during the Cold War, but the rules have changed.

How many years do you think it will be before a radical Islamic group has access to a nuclear weapon?

Do you think the thought of mutual destruction will be the same deterrent for them that it was for the Soviet Union?

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Old 12-07-2012, 21:45   #25
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Originally Posted by IhRedrider View Post
You banter the emblem of the Air Force, implying you are a patriot, yet this is what you have to say about what helps to keep this Country secure?
I'm not sure I follow you. I'm suggesting that there is at least a glimmer of hope for humanity in the sense that we have so far refrained from unleashing nuclear weapons upon one another and you construe that as somehow unpatriotic?

I spent most of my active duty time as part of Strategic Air Command (and was there for the change of command to US Strategic Command). Our mission was to prepare for WWIII in all respects. So, when I choose to talk about the horrors of nuclear war, you should choose to listen.
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Old 12-07-2012, 22:45   #26
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Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
Nuclear weapons and the threat of mutual destruction may have kept us safe during the Cold War, but the rules have changed.

How many years do you think it will be before a radical Islamic group has access to a nuclear weapon?

Do you think the thought of mutual destruction will be the same deterrent for them that it was for the Soviet Union?

-ArtificialGrape
One of the things I will always remember from my Foreign Affairs class that my teacher said.....(paraphrasing) "During the Cold War, the deterrent of mutually assured destruction worked because the Soviet Union cared about its children"

I completely agree with this. This very comment is also what scares me about the religious zealots, especially the muslims. The muslim terrorist doesn't give a damn about his or his countries children, therefore, the threat of retaliation is meaningless to him.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:01   #27
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One of the things I will always remember from my Foreign Affairs class that my teacher said.....(paraphrasing) "During the Cold War, the deterrent of mutually assured destruction worked because the Soviet Union cared about its children"

I completely agree with this. This very comment is also what scares me about the religious zealots, especially the muslims. The muslim terrorist doesn't give a damn about his or his countries children, therefore, the threat of retaliation is meaningless to him.

This is one of the big differences between Christianity and Islam. To the Christian life should be sacred because Christians should believe that man was made in the image of God therefore they are special and cannot be property like animals can be.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

you can see how this would trickle down to the treatment of women, children and fellow men. To an Islamic his wife and children are his property to do with as he pleases. To a Christian they are the property of God to be cherished as a blessing.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:10   #28
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I believe Jesus is God, Hell is hot, and Forever is a long time.

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Old 12-30-2012, 15:18   #29
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I believe Jesus is God, Hell is hot, and Forever is a long time.

Two out of three of your beliefs are fear motivators.

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Old 12-30-2012, 15:35   #30
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Two out of three of your beliefs are fear motivators.
I was afraid someone would notice that.
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Old 12-30-2012, 17:23   #31
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This is one of the big differences between Christianity and Islam. To the Christian life should be sacred because Christians should believe that man was made in the image of God therefore they are special and cannot be property like animals can be.
Have you ever tried actually reading the Bible?

Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive. (Titus 2:9-10)

Just to offer one of many examples.
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Old 12-30-2012, 17:36   #32
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Have you ever tried actually reading the Bible?

Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive. (Titus 2:9-10)

Just to offer one of many examples.
Maybe you are importing chattel slavery into the verse.
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Old 12-30-2012, 17:58   #33
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Maybe you are importing chattel slavery into the verse.
Please, do explain what you mean.
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Old 12-30-2012, 18:55   #34
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Please, do explain what you mean.
Well, the original Greek might be better translated today as bondservant. A bondservant can be described as a slave, but is still very different from chattel slave.

Usually, when we hear "slavery," we imagine chattel slavery.

Bondservants have a debt obligation to their masters. Often, after the debt is paid off, the servant elects to stay with their master.

Under chattel slavery, there is no debt. Slaves are just owned as property like mules and such.
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Old 12-30-2012, 19:45   #35
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Posted by inertia186:
Well, the original Greek might be better translated today as bondservant. A bondservant can be described as a slave, but is still very different from chattel slave.
Right, I've heard that one before. If it's true, how do you explain:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


That's outright slavery, plain and simple.
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:03   #36
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Have you ever tried actually reading the Bible?

Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive. (Titus 2:9-10)

Just to offer one of many examples.
In all your wisdom why must you always distort everything?

Human slaves were not to be treated as animals. In fact there were serious penalties for mistreatment.

Exodus 21:20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:33   #37
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Right, I've heard that one before. If it's true, how do you explain:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


That's outright slavery, plain and simple.
And your point?

Last edited by inertia186; 12-30-2012 at 20:33..
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:42   #38
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Well, the original Greek might be better translated today as bondservant. A bondservant can be described as a slave, but is still very different from chattel slave.

Usually, when we hear "slavery," we imagine chattel slavery.

Bondservants have a debt obligation to their masters. Often, after the debt is paid off, the servant elects to stay with their master.

Under chattel slavery, there is no debt. Slaves are just owned as property like mules and such.
Are you claiming that slaves weren't sold in the ancient world, including in Rome and Palestine, in the same way they were in the American slave markets of the 17th-19th centuries?
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:48   #39
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In all your wisdom why must you always distort everything?
I quoted two verses from the Bible, how is that distortion?
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Human slaves were not to be treated as animals. In fact there were serious penalties for mistreatment.

Exodus 21:20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
Who's distorting? What's the next verse?

but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. (Exodus 21:21)

and what's the punishment if someone kills another person's animal? So that we can see the difference between slaves and animals.
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:57   #40
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Are you claiming that slaves weren't sold in the ancient world, including in Rome and Palestine, in the same way they were in the American slave markets of the 17th-19th centuries?
Correct, they were not sold in the same way.

American slave markets did not have any notion of the debt owed by the slave. There was no limit of any kind associated with the slave as related by the debt they owed. They could never pay off their debt because it wasn't based on any debt obligation.
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