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Old 12-07-2012, 22:38   #251
Jgriggs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BicycleDay43 View Post
An individual must be 21 years of age to be hired as an LEO for most agencies. (For dealing with handguns, alcohol). Not sure if you're being sarcastic or just full of it.
19.5 in WA state.

http://www.wsp.wa.gov/employment/requirements.htm
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Old 12-08-2012, 00:19   #252
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Originally Posted by Jgriggs View Post
I suspect it has gotten real quiet in here because after ten pages most have gotten bored and moved on.

I have a question for you.
Is it legal in your state to carry while you're drinking?
Is it legal to carry in an establishment or an area whose primary business is to serve alcohol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Yes as long as you're not intoxicated and yes as long as the establishment does not restrict it (signs in WI carry legal weight)
Put a few qualifiers in red.

Quote:
If not, then your 'who hasn't had a few drinks and sped all around town with a weapon' argument is moot.
It's moot, anyways. We're not the ones who are trying to defend ourselves, online or in court.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:54   #253
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Originally Posted by faawrenchbndr View Post
Very BAD idea to be discussing this "legal" matter here!
Do yourself a favor & let the lawyers handle this, keep your
comments off the WWW, the defense team WILL find this.
Nice to see some degree of common sense still exists on gun forums.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:58   #254
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You are a poster child for anti ccw groups.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I was asked if my concealed was loaded. pretty stupid cop and the impending civil rights violation suit will maybe edumacate him



Moderator Note: I moved this from another thread to its own for better exposure and discussion. Hopefully, it might help others who find themselves in similar circumstances.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:20   #255
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I don't have anything to add that isn't already here, but I want to know the outcome, so ....I post
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:47   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgriggs View Post
I have a question for you.
Is it legal in your state to carry while you're drinking?
Is it legal to carry in an establishment or an area whose primary business is to serve alcohol?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Yes and yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Yes as long as you're not intoxicated and yes as long as the establishment does not restrict it (signs in WI carry legal weight)
Quote:
Originally Posted by golls17 View Post
Put a few qualifiers in red.
This is how the law actually reads relating to your second question:
Quote:
Quote:
941.237  Carrying handgun where alcohol beverages may be sold and consumed.

(2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any premises for which a Class "B" or "Class B" license or permit has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following:
(cx) A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g), if the licensee or out-of-state licensee is not consuming alcohol on the premises.
Your first question is related to this:
Quote:
Quote:
941.20  Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
(1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
(b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant;
Now we have the definition of "under the influence" found here,WISCONSIN’S NEW CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPON LAW QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS AUGUST 2, 2011, at Page 30 under the heading, "Can I carry a firearm, concealed or open, in a tavern?"

That document appears to be where bucksnort1959 found his "Jury Instruction".
Quote:
“Under the Influence” has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming “an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.” WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321.
Probably, bucksnort1959 was never charged with carrying under the influence. He was, probably, arrested based on the officer's suspicion that he was under the influence, but he was never charged.

It was perhaps that suspicion and the resulting arrest that triggered the search of his vehicle. That is, maybe, his complaint in his 42 USC § 1983 action.

He probably alleges that with a BAC of 0.012, he exhibited no physical characteristics of being under the influence. He allegedly has a police dash cam video of the stop. That should show him exiting his vehicle, being handcuffed, and walking back to the police vehicle. The audio would disclose his speech pattern. If all that is normal...

If the arrest was based solely on the smell of alcohol on his breath, without any other articulable evidence of impairment, the arrest may be declared illegal. Then, he may allege, the resulting search of his vehicle and the seizure of his weapon may be violations of his Rights.

bucksnort1959, is that pretty much how things are?
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:43   #257
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Russ, that sounds like the only way it could happen that his rights were violated under color of law. I would like to see the beginning of the tape to see if it shows the traffic infraction that caused the leo to make the stop.

Is this guy really from Wisconsin and do you guys think he is 53?

Friday, Sept. 211:26 a.m. — A 34-year-old Onalaska man was arrested on the 600 block of 12th Avenue North for drunken driving (BAC .012).


If it is Wisconsin and real I believe we can find it on a public search.

Last edited by JuneyBooney; 12-08-2012 at 18:19..
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:56   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Yes and yes
Is your other screen name Coleslaw by chance??

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Old 12-08-2012, 10:59   #259
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I'd like to know if he came off as argumentative, belligerent, and uncooperative during that stop as he has here. I'd like to know if he opted for a BAC test in lieu of a field sobriety. I wonder if that might not be the "arrest" he's talking about.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:22   #260
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If his responses here are any indication the he probably did not answer the questions or asked his own out of nowhere questions.

LEO: Do you why I stopped you?

BS: What percentage of bowlers have picked up a 7-10 split?

LEO: Have you been drinking?

BS: Have you ever had a drink for 4 nights in a row and then skipped drinking for two nights?
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:15   #261
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I have been watching some videos on YouTube about this very thing. One thing is common in each one; the person being questioned by the authorities is a jerk that is overly consumed with exercising his rights to the fullest without considering the law and the rights of others. Being questioned by an officer is not a crime, but being a jerk to an officer will quickly and legally restrict your rights at hand.

I am working on getting my Handgun Carry Permit and these types of things are interesting to me. But like I said, there is always a common thread among all posts and videos. For instance, as I understand it, in TN when pulled over by a LEO, you are to immediately notify them that you are armed and turn over your firearm to them during the stop.

I am also glad to know that there are LEO's out there serious about keeping our communities safe and are making concerted efforts to keep bad guys with guns off the street. If that means I get questioned by a few cops, so be it. As long as I am courteous, as we all should be since these men/women are protecting us, then all should go well.
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:21   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldMyHat View Post
I am working on getting my Handgun Carry Permit and these types of things are interesting to me. But like I said, there is always a common thread among all posts and videos. For instance, as I understand it, in TN when pulled over by a LEO, you are to immediately notify them that you are armed and turn over your firearm to them during the stop.
Welcome to GT!!

The part I put in bold, that is not true.

Why don't you start a new thread and ask that question so we do not hijack this one.

Thanks!
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Old 12-08-2012, 16:39   #263
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In NH

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I was asked if my concealed was loaded. pretty stupid cop and the impending civil rights violation suit will maybe edumacate him



Moderator Note: I moved this from another thread to its own for better exposure and discussion. Hopefully, it might help others who find themselves in similar circumstances.
The LEO must ask if the CCW is loaded, for it is legal in NH to CCW with an unloaded handgun. So the question is valid in any state that allows unloaded CCW.
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:05   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldMyHat View Post
I have been watching some videos on YouTube about this very thing. One thing is common in each one; the person being questioned by the authorities is a jerk that is overly consumed with exercising his rights to the fullest without considering the law and the rights of others. Being questioned by an officer is not a crime, but being a jerk to an officer will quickly and legally restrict your rights at hand.

I am working on getting my Handgun Carry Permit and these types of things are interesting to me. But like I said, there is always a common thread among all posts and videos. For instance, as I understand it, in TN when pulled over by a LEO, you are to immediately notify them that you are armed and turn over your firearm to them during the stop.

I am also glad to know that there are LEO's out there serious about keeping our communities safe and are making concerted efforts to keep bad guys with guns off the street. If that means I get questioned by a few cops, so be it. As long as I am courteous, as we all should be since these men/women are protecting us, then all should go well.
Actually there's not a right to notify in TN, but we will know you have a handgun carry permit when we run your DL. The officer may or may not ask for the weapon. I never have. I normally just ask where it is and leave it there. LEOs do have the right statutorily to disarm in TN if they feel there's a safety concern. Normally that's not hard to articulate involving a traffic stop.

And you're right, courtesy goes a long way. I have yet to disarm a permit holder after 11 years on the job. I've arrested a handful, but it was DUI and/or drug-related. I was involved in another arrest where the permit holder had a handgun with filed serial numbers. That didn't end well for him. ATF got involved.

Last edited by SgtScott31; 12-08-2012 at 17:05..
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:11   #265
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Actually there's not a right to notify in TN, but we will know you have a handgun carry permit when we run your DL. The officer may or may not ask for the weapon. I never have. I normally just ask where it is and leave it there. LEOs do have the right statutorily to disarm in TN if they feel there's a safety concern. Normally that's not hard to articulate involving a traffic stop.

And you're right, courtesy goes a long way. I have yet to disarm a permit holder after 11 years on the job. I've arrested a handful, but it was DUI and/or drug-related. I was involved in another arrest where the permit holder had a handgun with filed serial numbers. That didn't end well for him. ATF got involved.
A courteous, LEO reply. Thanks.
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Old 12-08-2012, 18:12   #266
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Originally Posted by Shinytop View Post
If his responses here are any indication the he probably did not answer the questions or asked his own out of nowhere questions.

LEO: Do you why I stopped you?

BS: What percentage of bowlers have picked up a 7-10 split?

LEO: Have you been drinking?

BS: Have you ever had a drink for 4 nights in a row and then skipped drinking for two nights?
I bet he was wearing a tin hat too.
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Old 12-08-2012, 18:54   #267
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Pretty sure it is illegal to be in possession of a firearm if you have had just one drink. If your gonna have a beer leave the gun at home
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Old 12-08-2012, 19:03   #268
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First, officers looking nervous on video has NOTHING to do with the legality of their actions.

Good luck with your civil suit.

I've arrested people for DWI without doing field sobriety and won. I've arrested people for DWI that later tested at less than .08 and won. Of course, BAC over .08 and DWI are two separate charges in my state. For DWI all that really matters is your level of impairment. In other words, if the officer can articulate why he had PC to arrest you, he's probably fine.

Good luck with your civil suit.

Somebody will probably chime in here that Arizona v. Gant removed searches of vehicles incident to arrest, which isn't true. The decision removed arbitrary or procedural searches incident to arrest. With a DWI there stands a pretty good chance that there's going to be evidence of the crime in your vehicle (cans, bottles, etc), and a search incident to arrest for evidence related to the crime the individual was arrested for is reasonable. Furthermore, at least in my state, an officer detecting or believing in good faith that he detects an odor of marijuana in your vehicle has PC to search.

Again, good luck with your civil suit.

Further-urthermore, if the arrest is deemed legal, the confiscation of your weapon as evidence of probably yet another crime (possession of a firearm while intoxicated...) is golden as well. I sincerely doubt the officer used the word "steal" in reference to your firearm and the wording matters. Even if he did, a joke in poor taste makes you look stupid in court but doesn't necessarily mean you lose.

Good luck with your civil suit. Seeing a theme?

Of course, the above is all written based on the assumption that you really have a pending civil suit and your post wasn't simply "I want to be one of the tough guys" internet chest-thumping.

THIS hit the nail on the head...... good on ya sir!!

(OP, seriously, in everyones best interest, leave the legal stuff between you, your lawyer, and the courts.)
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Old 12-08-2012, 19:13   #269
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Sorry to double post here but a couple more (potentially) overlooked things.

Here in Minnesota it is:

A. Illegal to speed.
B. Illegal to drive with a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) over .08 (same as in every other state)
C. Illegal to drive if even the smallest amout of alcohol impairs your ability to operate a motor vehicle (meaning if you have one shot, and you are s**t faced, you cannot drive)
D. NOT a civil rights violation to ask a person if they have a weapon on or about their person, and if they have a firearm they are carrying, or intend to carry, must provide proof of a carry permit upon the officers request (so therefore, asking if the firearm is loaded...... thats just good..... how shall we say...... questions???)


And finally, if you were in fact placed "under arrest" most agencies have DEPARTMENT POLICY to search a motor vehicle to inventory the contents. That way the subject of the stop cannot come back and say "hey, I had $2,500 cash on the passenger seat when I was stopped, where is it?"

So.... that is more than likely why they searched your vehicle OP
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Old 12-08-2012, 20:26   #270
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Pretty sure it is illegal to be in possession of a firearm if you have had just one drink. If your gonna have a beer leave the gun at home
Pretty sure you should have read the rest of the thread before making you first post. It seems that in Wisconsin ( if that is where the dude lives at) it is not illegal to drink while carrying, provided you are not impaired by said drinking. Wheither or not one drink would impair the gentleman in question is a different question. I frankly don't understand the people that say you should never carry a firearm if you have a drink. I wonder if same persons leave their pocket knives and other sharp objects at home too, when having a drink. That is another discussion, though, and one that has been kicked around in this forum before.
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Old 12-08-2012, 22:09   #271
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Pretty sure you should have read the rest of the thread before making you first post. It seems that in Wisconsin ( if that is where the dude lives at) it is not illegal to drink while carrying, provided you are not impaired by said drinking. Wheither or not one drink would impair the gentleman in question is a different question. I frankly don't understand the people that say you should never carry a firearm if you have a drink. I wonder if same persons leave their pocket knives and other sharp objects at home too, when having a drink. That is another discussion, though, and one that has been kicked around in this forum before.
I agree with your statement. I have been told here in MN, it is illegal to be in possession of a firearm ( on your person) and have a .04 BCA or more.

I know instructors for permit to carry courses make the statement "if you drink at all, dont carry" so it is probably a safe rule in more ways than one to live buy.
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Old 12-09-2012, 18:19   #272
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I read page one. Then went to page 11. My educated guess is this story is bs.

Last edited by dnuggett; 12-09-2012 at 18:20..
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:20   #273
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if i carry.....i'll drink water......
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:38   #274
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The OP, bucksnort1959 has logged in to GT twice since his last post, but has not added more to the discussion.

bucksnort1959, whenever you have anything of substance to report, please start a new thread. Good luck.
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Old 12-09-2012, 21:53   #275
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The OP, bucksnort1959 has logged in to GT twice since his last post, but has not added more to the discussion.

bucksnort1959, whenever you have anything of substance to report, please start a new thread. Good luck.
I'm betting he won't, either because it didn't happen or he won't want to share that he didn't get the outcome he wanted...
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